Reply to Antizionism is not antisemitism/the current conflict

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]If everyone planned on moving to one’s country of origin from 1000-2000 years ago, what a mess that would be. Is everyone living in Israel pure 100% Israeli? Like the Native Americans are here? [/quote]

Huh? You are confusing this metaphor. Palestinian activists typically claim they are the true indigenous people of the land (like the Native Americans here). They claim that (like the USA), Israelis stole their land and kicked them out. Even accepting for argument’s sake that they are right, no American would tolerate Navajo nationalists blowing up buses and kidnapping civilians in Tucson in an effort to reclaim Arizona. [/quote]
Ok so a simple dna test would prove who has ties to the land and who does not. If one has minimal to no ties they have no right kicking people off the land. Yes things like this have been done historically by the US, hundreds of years ago.[/quote]

Ok cool so to be clear, your proposed solution is to DNA test every Israeli/American, and deport all those you consider to have insufficient middle eastern/Native American DNA. Sounds like a great, very non-eugenics-y plan![/quote]
If the argument is over who the land belongs to then yes, this is fair.[/quote]

So you support your own deportation from the US, right? Or is Land Back something you care about just when Jews are involved? Btw a dna test will largely support Jews staying in Israel, but not you staying in the US.[/quote]
No you are misunderstanding me. We are discussing why antizionism may exist. It’s like me claiming land in Europe belongs to me because my relatives immigrated from there.[/quote]

I think you are misunderstanding yourself and not following your own argument to its end.[/quote]
You realize that your argument is nonsensical to the average person? So pretty much anyone claiming to be jewish, like I could convert to Judaism and get to claim Israel as my homeland? Is that accurate? People with recent ancestral ties to Russia and Eastern Europe are allowed to claim the ME as their homeland? I don’t disagree that Israel should exist but your reasoning is nonsensical.[/quote]

Israel is a sovereign nation, and like all sovereign nations, is free to give preference (or not) to certain individuals and groups in matters of immigration and citizenship. All countries do this. People with Irish/German ancestry have an easier time getting Irish/German citizenship. People with a certain amount of money/vocational skills are given immigration preference in the US and other countries. Israel was specifically founded as a refuge for Jews fleeing persecution so yes, that is something they consider wrt immigration. That doesn’t mean that non-Jews cannot become citizens (21% of Israeli citizens are not Jewish). Conversely, Jews are LEGALLY BARRED from becoming citizens in many Muslim-majority countries, like Saudi Arabia. People don’t seem to have a problem with that though. [/quote]
Supposedly Judaism is an ethnoreligion but if anyone can convert it’s not really. Converts to Judaism aren’t ethnically Jewish, they’re just educated and acting like ethnic Jews. If I convert to Judaism I wouldn’t actually be a Jew.[/quote]

Actually, it's much harder for converts from outside Israel to claim Israeli citizenship as Jews than it is for people born Jewish. That's mostly because Orthodox rabbis won't accept conversions by non-Orthodox rabbis, but the effect is that not "anyone" can convert and then become Israeli.

I think this is probably an extreme edge case — how many people want to convert to Judaism just to move to Israel? Not to be blunt about it, but... why would you want to move to Israel right now, especially if you're not already Jewish? I was born Jewish and I have no interest in moving there.

But on the underlying point, there are thousands of years of Jewish debate and thought about converts, so I think I'll just go with the general rule (converts to Judaism are Jewish, period) even if it means someone on DCUM thinks otherwise.[/quote]
So the premise and origins of Israel really only apply to a very distinct select group of individuals. If the argument is over who the land belongs to it belongs to any semitic person of any religion.[/quote]

The premise of Israel is any Jew can become a citizen. Israeli authorities just disagree with a lot of American Jews over who is a Jew.

I don’t think this has anything to do with whether “any Semitic person” “owns” the land. Israel’s not making a legal claim that because Jews lived there thousands of years ago, they own it now. (They’re making a moral claim on that.) As a legal matter, the state of Israel exists and has borders. Those borders are disputed but it isn’t a question of just deciding the state isn’t valid anymore…[/quote]

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