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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]They may be getting a preschool "education" (probably more harm than good at this age—as studies on universal Prek show) but they are much less likely to get the same preschool experience—the small, steady cohort. The naps and meals at home, the teachers who truly chose this path. Do you really not see the difference?

Of course all children deserve the best early years experience. It has nothing to do with SES: If you care about children, stop pretending their developing nervous systems are adapted to 10 hours a day of institutional care—even with the kindest teachers you can hire. I am a feminist but that shouldn't require me to be in denial of child development. Feminists' goals should be to improve daycare and allow much, much more flexibility and job security when kids are 0-3.[/quote]

You aren’t a feminist. What you are is ignorant, and also you are going to be an absolutely terrible parent to older teens. [/quote]

Dp.  She is right.  There is research that shows long lasting detrimental affects of institutional care, especially with increased time and at younger ages.  
  
We are not doing women a service by ignoring or hiding that.  A feminist position would be to support mothers and fathers who take leave between ages 0-3 with both job flexibility and return job security.  We actually do this with military or detail assignments all the time, it is entirely possible.  We as a society have to value child rearing as much as we do going to war.

https://criticalscience.medium.com/on-the-science-of-daycare-4d1ab4c2efb4#:~:text=Children%20spending%20long%20hours%20in,negative%20effect%20on%20later%20behavior.
[/quote]

Please don't use this blog post as an excuse to tell other parents they don't care about their children. That just makes you a mean, rude person. Also, read the studies cited in the post. The evidence is not nearly as definitive as the author makes it sound.[/quote]

No way am I (or this study) saying  full time dual working parents of young children care less about their children.  It is the only way to stay afloat for many middle class families and poverty is a much worse indicator for child outcomes.

I’m saying we need better workplace flexibility to reduce the early need for 40+ hours of institutional care by freeing up BOTH parents (especially for the men who tend to forego longer paternity leave because it is not normalized enough).   As Americans with more working years than any rich country (40-50 !!) Each parent taking 2-3 years of part time or time off to share in raising two kids is so trivial and with such high potential social payoff that it’s absurd we can’t normalize this.  exaggerated accounts  of ‘welfare queens’ have really blinded us to this reality.

And, yes, I do think the data is pretty compelling since we are talking about 20% of kids affected having behavior issues in early elementary, not to mention adolescent mental health issues.  This puts extra pressure on schools and kids and frankly leads to over-medication of kids imo.  [/quote]

Data analyst here (not PP). You’re going to have to do better than that to persuade me that this data is so compelling. I’ve looked closely at these “studies” that people like you use to be gratuitously mean for sport.

Give me your hard data and facts. Argue with me using actual science. I’m here for it. [/quote]

If by ‘people like me’ you mean working moms who are raising three kids and have alternately used daycare, pre-school, and nanny care as well as part time and unpaid leave at various times then yeah, it’s been an important subject to me.  There is a lot of data out there.  Much of it contradictory.  That’s actually why I found the medium summary helpfully thorough.  But here’s another one from psychology today that is also thorough:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/blog/insight-therapy/202002/the-deal-daycare-what-do-the-data-denote?amp

…and which points out a big problem with center care in the us is that high quality center care (teacher ratio, education and turnover) is very hard to find (11%) and very expensive and not the norm for our kids in the us.

I find the research wrt cortisol levels and delayed effects like aggression at school age as well as negative adolescent behavior pretty compelling.  Here are those specific studies:

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0141076820903494#:~:text=A%20meta%2Danalysis%20concluded%20that,levels%20than%20children%20at%20home'.&text=During%20the%201990s%2C%20experiments%20on,developing%20brains%20and%20neuro%2Dsystems.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2938040/

I think ramping up child care from 0-4 both in hours and caregiver ratio makes the most sense based on these studies.  I think we can do that when dads take on their fair share of parental leave and workplaces offer greater flexibility especially with part time and parental leave options.  I don’t think that makes me mean or anti feminist or any of the other names I’ve been called.  But of course I could be wrong and am not a data scientist although I do have an Ivy  masters in a stem field fwiw.  I think we all try to navigate the work life balance issue for young children and I definitely think more dads should be stepping up to the plate to help carry these loads.  [/quote]

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