Reply to Which universities have gone DOWN in stature over the years?

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]W&M is an obvious answer.

Ranking drop from 32 -&gt; 38.
Acceptance rate went from 33% to 42%, higher than large publics like UT Austin and UMD. While large publics like Berkeley are reaching single-digit acceptance rates, W&M's is increasing.

Student enrollment has increased.

Their law school has gone completely downhill.

W&M used to be more difficult to get into than UVA, due to a smaller number seats. It had higher SAT scores than UVA, the highest among publics comparable to Berkley. It was compared to the smaller Ivies like Dartmouth/Brown and SLACs like Swarthmore. It attracted out-of-staters and wealthy internationals that would never consider a large public for OOS tuition, but would consider W&M due to the size and feel.

Nowadays, UVA is far more tougher to get in, [b]has far higher SAT scores[/b] and far great national and international reach.[/quote]

Per most recent CDS:

UVA 25th/75th percentile SAT - 1330-1490
W&M 25th/75th percentile SAT - 1360-1520

b[b]oth have average GPAs of 4.3.[/b]

Perhaps W&M’s higher acceptance rate is a function of some other factor other than the caliber of students they attract.  Maybe since UVA and has more prominent sports and a better college town and is bigger it appeals to more kids who apply that are more borderline. W&M is bit more niche in that it a very small public, so more like a SLAC. Williamsburg is pretty sleepy too.

Maybe, just maybe, acceptance rate is not a good indication of how good a school is at any rate.[/quote]

NNo they don't., the GPA of the actual class that enrolled at UVA last fall had a 4.52 at the 75th percentile, a 4.39 at the median and a 4.23 for the bottom 25th percentile.  W&M's student profile runs lower:   4.50 at the 75th, 4.30 at the 50th and a 4.08 at the bottom 25th.

UVA also beats W&M wiht ACT scores, the 74th/50th/30th percentiles are 35/34/32 for UVA and for W&M the ACTSare 34/33/31[/quote]

[b]A[b]t the 75th percentile, SAT score/GPA is 1520/4.50 at W&M and 1510/4.52 at UVA[/b].  Virtually the same.[/b]  The difference in the last couple of years has been at the lower half, with UVA higher.  It used to be the opposite if you look at SCHEV historical data.  When W&M had higher average SAT scores than UVA, I did not think UVA is in decline.  I just think there are trends that play out over some period of time and then new trends emerge.  W&M needs to get more applicants to better fill out the bottom half stats.

In USNEWS rankings, both UVA and W&M have been hurt by the inclusion of the social mobility metrics based on Pell Grant recipients.  Both schools are relatively low in percentage of students receiving Pell Grants particularly compared to schools in other states like the UC universities.  Outside of that, the big movers in USNWR in my recollection have been private universities (Chicago, Vanderbilt, Northeastern, etc.)  They seem to have more levers to pull in rankings than public schools.[/quote]

No, not "virtually the same". UVA tops W&M in all categories but SAT 75th, which  is coincidentally the only one you cite.! Here are the student profiles of last year's class at UVA and W&M
 UVA 1510/1460/1400 whereas for WYM the scores are  W&M 1520/1440/1360   https://research.schev.edu//enrollment/B10_FreshmenProfile.asp.  https://research.schev.edu//enrollment/B10_FreshmenProfile.asp
[/quote]

Read it again:  "At the 75th percentile, SAT score/GPA is 1520/4.50 at W&M and 1510/4.52 at UVA.  Virtually the same."  What part of that is not true?  Is any part of what follows that not true?

[/quote]
+1
The interquartile range of UVA on SATs translates to 94-99%ile and W&M translates to 93-99+%--anyone who says these aren't essentially the same has gone off the deep end. [/quote]

Such is the hair-splitting that so many on here engage in to manufacture differences that are not really there.  I get that with the price of college skyrocketing, people want to feel like they make the best choice for the $$$, but universities are too multi-faceted to reduce down to a single ranking even a small number of factors.  A lot of things matter, but different things matter more or less to different people.

Some (most on here it seems) value reputational prestige more than anything else.  How that is quantified accurately and objectively is beyond me.
Some want good value. Some want big schools with lots of opportunities to find ones tribe.  Some want a school heavy on research. Some want more of a SLAC approach that emphasizes undergraduate teaching. Some want feeders to certain careers or professional schools.  It’s a preference, and not “good” vs “bad”.  We need to grow up.

In the end, the vast majority of students, with a little leg work, can find 10 or more colleges at which they can thrive.  It’s the parents who can’t get over the prestige barrier and facing the humility of telling the neighbors that DC is going to Directional State U.[/quote]

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