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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote]"Objective" is defined as "independent of the knower and his consciousness." Truth, according to Aristotle's definition, is defined as "saying of what is that it is and of what is not that it is not.". Truth means "telling it like it is." 
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Okay.  But as I said before, you're engaging in the fallacy of conflating physical "truths" with moral "truths".  As many have pointed out, they're not the same thing.  Moral truths are fluid.  That's why the question "How can you have morality without God" is a nonsensical one.  Morality is a byproduct of consciousness.  It is by definition subjective.

Your only response to this seems to be that, no it's objective.  And God is its arbiter.  Therefore he exists.

Obviously, this is a completely unpersuasive argument unless you've got an existing attachment to the God Hypothesis.   Perhaps why CS Lewis (assume he agrees with you) is so compelling to true believers, and so uncompelling to non-believers.[/quote]

Earlier, I made the distinction between physical truths and moral truths.  Religious skeptics and subjectivists are not universal skeptics (no truth is knowable) or universal subjectivists (all truth is subjective).  Religious skeptics and subjectivists concede objective truth is knowable in nonreligious fields.  Just not in morality.  The statement "moral truths are fluid" is the definition of a religious subjectivist.

You mentioned one version of religious subjectivism:  morality is a byproduct of consciousness.  We learn God from our mothers.  We learn values from society.  The origin of values is not something objective outside of human minds, but within the minds themselves.  What comes from humans is subjective.

This confuses our opinions about morality with morality itself.  If there is an Absolute Authority on morality (God), then our opinions about morality are not the same thing as morality.

You would say they are, in fact, one and the same.  Our opinions about morality are morality, sum total.  That is why morality is fluid.

That is possibly true.  But then the Aztecs were perfectly right to rip those babies' hearts out.[/quote]

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