Reply to Supreme Court revisits Texas affirmative action in new case

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]...and, in addition to that, studies have shown that grades are more indicative of success then test scores.[/quote]

If you're interested in how well test score predict college performance:

http://www.isironline.org/isir-2015-invited-address-paul-sackett-nathan-kuncel/

They have a dataset that show that test scores predict academic performance quite well, and do so regardless of race, SES and gender.  The sample size was 1.2 million college students. [/quote]

This has been refuted.  High SAT scores are correlated to high SES.  When I get a moment, I will post.  Especially, when it comes to LSAT and bar passage rates.[/quote]

No, this hasn't been refuted.  It's a brand new study with 1.2 million participants (college board data).  Most of other studies were very small sample size or were manipulated to get the results the author wanted. Watch the presentation, it's very illuminating.[/quote]

What will it prove?  That only kids with high SAT scores should go to college?  [b]That only a subset of our population deserve to be there[/b]?  That colleges should only use test scores for admission?  That our society is better if we only employ people who scored well?  Please - illuminate me.[/quote]

Yes?  Do you think everybody is college material?[/quote]

Depends on the race.

[/quote]

Non-black applicant with 2370 SAT, 4.0 and 4.6 gpa, 12+ APs all 5s, 800 on all subject tests, sport, orchestra, 2 major leadership positions, extensive volunteering, original research at University, internships at research labs, writing award and writing tutor, 3 foreign languages, excellent clubs and ECs, excellent LORs etc. denied to all colleges except one. Low SES with no advantages.

A black applicant with the above qualifications would have been admitted to all of the colleges. Depends on the race.[/quote]

Agree. There are plenty of athletes, legacies, and non-black students who do not fit the above same criteria, but still get in. [/quote]

Seems to me there should be concerned about the high acceptances of international students, as evidenced the article below from CC:

An interesting article at the Wall Street Journal notes that 975,000 international students are enrolled in US colleges and universities this year, up 10% from the year before. Since most of these are full-tuition students, they are attractive prospects for financially strapped US schools. But, it's making it more difficult for US and in-state students to be admitted.

The article focuses on University of California schools, who accepted 62% of in-state applicants last year - down from 84% four years earlier.

According to the article, the UC schools are the most affected. Most other state schools have held in-state admissions steady. (The article doesn't describe the effect on out-of-state US students. Presumably, a full-pay international student might be more desirable than a domestic student who would need financial aid.)

Declining state subsidies in California, UC administrators say, make it necessary to admit more full-pay international students to keep in-state tuition low.

More: http://www.wsj.com/articles/foreign-students-pinch-university-of-california-home-state-admissions-1447650060 [/quote]

PP, it's the precise opposite. If we truly believe in the educational benefits of diversity, we need to bring in MANY MORE international students. 975,000 international students is but a token. I want my kids exposed to how the Chinese think, how Arabs speak, how Latin Americans dance, how Germans plan.

If you prefer a chauvinist approach ("only American students matter"), you are of course entitled to say so, but please add clarify that you don't really give a sh*t about diversity.[/quote] I fully believe that American universities should first educate American citizens. An educated citizenry benefits our education just as our first responsibility is jobs for our citizens not jobs for the world.  [/quote]

Very well said, and you prove my point: you don't believe in the supposed "educational benefits of diversity"[/quote] I fully believe that taxpayer dollars (and yes, taxpayer dollars do go to higher education) should first benefit our citizenry.  That does not mean I am opposed to diversity.  However, an educated populace should be our first goal, not educating others to benefit their populace at the expense of ours.  [/quote]

Sorry, I guess I should be a bit more clear.

Defenders of affirmative action often justify it on the basis that diversity is good for ALL the students in the classroom -- those are the so-called educational benefits of diversity.

They are saying diversity is good, even imperative, for the mainstream 90-95% of students admitted not because of AA (plus, of course, for the 5-10% admitted through AA).

Now, if you truly believe that, then you must advocate for MORE, not fewer, international students. They'd bring real diversity, which should be good for ALL the students in the classroom.[/quote]

You don't even know your own history and you want to bring international students.  If you did, you would not be adamant over 4% of black students at UT.  Read Lies My Teacher Told Me by James Loewen and then come back with an intelligent comment.[/quote]

read the Bible, or Kalama Sutta, or Man's search for meaning, or In praise of folly, and please come back with an intelligent comment. who the f#ck cares about some James Loewen other than an ignorant American like you?[/quote]

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