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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Antisemitism is not just about religious belief.[/quote]

Bingo. Jews are despised for being Jewish, not because they are religious.[/quote]
No. We despise Zionism.[/quote]

Zionism is code for Jews.[/quote]

No, it's not. Zionism is the [i]minority[/i] of American Jews who still support Israel.

Zionism is also Christians who have nothing but violence in their hearts, for the sake of their messianic mythological prophecy. 
[/quote]
Zionism is still the majority view of most American Jews. I think you're misunderstanding what Zionism is. One can (and many do) support the existence of the State of Israel and the right of its citizens to live in peace without supporting Bibi's administration or the specifics of the way his government is handling the war in Gaza (or settlements in the West Bank). Much like how I can be a patriotic American without supporting Trump or the Republican majority's policies. This really shouldn't be that hard to understand.[/quote]

You're confused. Zionism is not simply that "State of Israel should exist."  In particular, it is that the state of Israel should specifically exist as a Jewish state, creating and maintaining a nation-state built on privileging one ethnic and religious identity above others. Zionism inherently limits religious freedom and equality for all citizens. Non-Jewish populations, particularly Palestinians, are relegated to a second tier of citizenship, facing structural barriers in areas such as land ownership, immigration rights, political representation, and access to resources.

Believing Israel should exist as nation-state with religious, ethnic, and racial freedom, and civil rights promoting equality, is contradictory to Zionism.[/quote]

This doesn't have to be true, though. If Israel ended the occupation tomorrow, it could easily maintain a Jewish democracy with equal rights for all citizens for generations. The demographic problem with Israel as a Jewish state and also a democratic state is the millions of Palestinians living with no rights, not the smaller number of Palestinians who have the right to vote, own land, etc. [/quote]

The concept of Zionism isn't that Israel is simply a nation-state with a Jewish majority. It is that Israel is specifically a Jewish state.

For now, yes, Israel could range equal rights to those living in the occupied territories and still have a Jewish plurality (and maybe a slight majority). But doing so would be inconsistent with Zionism.

And part of that is due to the practical issue that in such a situation, the Jewish plurality wouldn't remain for long. You would see a Muslim majority almost certainly within a generation.

I think Netanyahu realizes Israel will eventually be forced to either annex and extend citizenship to the occupied territories, or give them up. I think part of the motivation for the genocide in Gaza is to reduce the Palestinian population enough to push off a potential Muslim majority for another generation, should Israel choose annexation over granting sovereignty.

Again, annexation with civil rights wouldn't be consistent with Zionism, but many Jews today aren't Zionists. And annexation without civil rights would solidify Israel's reputation as the modern day South Africa. Even if they did that, they'd eventually be forced to grant civil rights to the Palestinians.[/quote]

I wasn't talking about annexation, I was talking about giving the occupied territories up, which they should have done decades ago.[/quote]

Israel isn't going to give up the occupied territories. They obviously have no desire to give up Jerusalem, and they've been clear they don't intend to give up the West Bank. And while they'd love to give Gaza to Egypt, Israel has done so much damage to it that no one is going to be willing to take it. And they won't give it up to the Palestinians themselves.

They will eventually be forced to annex the territories unless they dramatically change their position on a two state solution. And even the latter is unlikely to work, as Israel has taken the areas necessary for an economically viable country.

Regardless, the point is that Zionism is more than believing that Israel should exist. You're right that a path for Zionism is to maintain a clear and strong Jewish majority in Israel, but that but guarantees the persecution of Palestinians for the foreseeable future. [/quote]

Right, but just because they aren’t going to do the only things that actually make sense for security and justice for everyone living in the area doesn’t mean that giving up the occupied territories is incompatible with Zionism or that all self-identifying Zionists agree with their insane decisions. [/quote]

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