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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]I think one clear message on which we can all agree, form this whole incel thing, is:

- boys need to be far more educated and raised as feminists.  It is the antidote to toxic masculinity.  I am talking to you, boy-moms.[/quote]

It is more complicated than that. I have to be sympathetic to their perceptions since THEY seem to be bearing the brunt of the mistakes and bad behavior of generations of men before them. My boys know and have been told about the inequities in history (not just towards women but other cultural groups and races). They know to stand up for people. But all they know is the life they are living and struggling through themselves.

For example, my oldest's college roommate (boys) worked for weeks on a presentation for a prestigious internship position.[b] There were spots for 2 boys and 2 girls from their school. There were about 20 boys and 3 girls who applied. [/b]His roommate did not get it despite being very qualified (grades, ecs etc) but one of the girls who got it had actually ran out of the presentation room in tears due to nerves. This really upset my feminist-raised ds on behalf of his roommate. It isn't going to make them the next Joe Rogans or anything but it doesn't engender empathy.

It is easy to say raise them that way but they face so many other factors and situations outside of the home especially as they get older - peers, reality, internet, other adults and leaders, etc. [/quote]

Weird example, as it’s just a numbers game here. This shouldn’t have anything to do with feminism or empathy—just, sometimes life’s not fair. You can’t always get what you want, and all that.

It feels like everyone is constantly looking for someone to blame for every single disappointment, rather than shrugging it off and looking for a different opportunity.[/quote]

I see this example went over your head. In their minds the competition should be [b]for 4 positions total without gender specifications[/b]. They know intellectually why there is such a thing but when they see how they are disadvantaged personally and in a specific way, it is not reality to think a 20yo guy would say  "ok well I understand that since women my grandmother's age would not have had the same chances as men 60 years ago, then my classmate who is a girl should take this spot even though I performed better than she did." It doesn't help the girls either. And it makes men/boys more susceptible to victimhood thinking, deserved or not. Even as a 'feminist' who has raised awareness and non-entitled thinking in my boys growing up, I can see why they might feel this way.

[/quote]

They need to go back to their textbooks and try harder then, especially if this is in a field that hopes to make significant money. More gender diversity is linked to greater profitability, and prestigious internships are bottom line about… the bottom line. This is the kind of thing bright college students with great ecs and good grades learn, right?

https://www.mckinsey.com/~/media/mckinsey/featured%20insights/diversity%20and%20inclusion/diversity%20wins%20how%20inclusion%20matters/diversity-wins-how-inclusion-matters-vf.pdf[/quote]

I don't disagree and I don't think they would either, intellectually. But as a practical matter it is hard to swallow and I can see why there would be resentment about the process. It is one thing to be ideological and aspirational but it is another when it impacts you and your future personally, especially 20yo guys. The don't see girls or women as inferior or needing extra help or what have you at all. Especially college women. [/quote]

It’s not ideological or aspirational: it’s just about money. More diverse teams are more profitable. Companies with gender diverse boards make more money. So yeah this company (in a clearly male dominated field) wants women more than they want a third-best guy. They’re not doing it to “help” anyone.[/quote]

That is all fine and well. I am talking about the personal impact and resulting feelings about it. [/quote]

I get that they’re hurt, my point is just they’re not being rational in their blame. And sure, hurt feelings are rarely rational, but assuming that a company with a prestigious internship took “less qualified” staff in order to “help them” really isn’t rational.

It has nothing to do with their grandmothers lack of opportunities, it has nothing to do with (their perception) that they performed better, it is truly just down to what a company thinks will make more money. I hope you’re teaching your sons to look critically at their assumptions. Your 20 y/o is absolutely capable of that level of understanding. [/quote]

Making more money is not the same as acting in an ethical manner. Anyone should be outraged about corporations exploiting racial and gender differences just to make a profit. It’s destroying our society.[/quote]

These boys wanted to work at this company— I assume to make money?  That’s ethical, but the company acting in a way to maximize their profits isn’t? The boys could go become public school teachers and help struggling young men if that’s their mission in life and what they hope to achieve in their careers— it’s not the role of the company to take a profit hit to cater to them.[/quote]

In fact it IS the role for all of us to prioritize ethics over profit. But I guess this is a brave new world where selfishness reigns supreme.[/quote]

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