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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]BUT a hidden overhead cost for STEM majors is the constant certifications that they have to keep obtaining once they graduate.  It's similar in effort to a masters degree, but just a different format.[/quote]

The companies normally pay for the certifications.
However it's the actual effort to be up to date with the fast changing  technologies and industry.

[/quote]
But it pays well, unlike undergrad English degrees. The ROI for an undergrad STEM degree is *much* better than for an English degree.[/quote]

I'm sure that's the case for the first job out of college, but has anyone got a link handy for long-term prospects?  I know the plural of anecdotes is not data, but I personally know a number of STEM majors from my day (admittedly awhile back) who basically topped out in level after about 12-15 years and were laid off by 20 years if they hadn't gone back and gotten an MBA or other advanced degree that allowed them to do something else of value in their company (and even a few of those who did that didn't last because they lacked the soft skills necessary to be a manager).  Turns out that it's much cheaper to hire the new engineers and computer software kids coming out of school than keep giving raises to the experienced ones, especially since their experience working with out-of-date technology doesn't give them such a huge advantage.[/quote]
There's a study for 5 years out of college.

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/02/12/the-best-and-worst-paying-college-majors-five-years-after-graduation.html

All engineering and CS.

[quote]The top 10 majors earning the most five years from graduation are all related to engineering — except for computer science, which ranks fifth out of all majors.
[/quote]
Bottom half:

[quote]The bottom 10 majors after five years are mostly liberal arts degrees, and they all pay less than $40,000 in wages right after college. In some cases, the lower-ranked majors pay almost less than half of what the best-paying majors earn.[/quote]

Eng. Language is on the list.[/quote]

Again, the question isn't whether the people who are still in those fields are making decent salaries mid-career or five years out (which is really short, by the way - there are tons of people laid off at 28 like the guy in this story:  https://www.latimes.com/business/technology/story/2023-01-24/in-the-wake-of-massive-layoffs-tech-workers-reconsider-their-future).  The question is whether an undergrad STEM degree sustains high wages (since once you start including grad degrees, then many lawyers would swamp those salaries).[/quote]

It sounds like you've made up a scenario in your head to help you feel better, and that's fine. Multiple data sources indicate STEM far out-earns humanities. Even if every single STEM major achieved their midcareer earnings with multiple masters degrees, their lifetime earnings would still be higher than humanities' majors. And are you seriously suggesting humanities majors don't get grad degrees? looooool. Keep telling yourself whatever you need to sleep cozy at night[/quote]

Not made up, as those stories I linked have shown.  Lots of tech people have gotten laid off.  Many engineers obsolete after 20 years, including electrical engineers from MIT etc (Motorola laid off a ton of engineers years ago).  And I'm definitely not "creating a scenario" to support the humanities.  I was just questioning whether an undergrad degree in STEM sustains you long term, which no one has answered because I guess there isn't data on that.  There is certainly lots of evidence of tech layoffs and engineering layoffs.  There is also evidence of yesterday's tech majors becoming obsolete today (see the Chronicle article).  My guess is certain STEM majors have more staying power and are less likely to get undercut by fresh, cheap, new graduates than others (see https://www.fastcompany.com/90820386/types-tech-workers-most-likely-laid-off).  The idea that it's a golden ticket seems overplayed, but I can understand why parents would be mostly focused on the short-term, because after that it's really on your kid (and because it helps pay off debt faster).[/quote]
So, what you are saying is that STEM majors need to keep up with tech to be relevant but don't require a masters degree, but English majors need a graduate degree to get paid decently.

There is also evidence that English majors are in the bottom rung of the payscale, unless you spend a fortune on getting a law degree or something.

How many STEM majors have huge loans vs English majors?
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