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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]I used to think that MCPS parents were the worst, but I see that I just haven't been paying enough attention to FCPS parents.  This thread is full of some of the most entitled, arrogant parents I've seen in a long time.  And you wonder why teachers are leaving the profession and that some of you are complaining about having subs, long-term subs and random school staff babysitting your children and not teaching them.  Well, congratulations, you've shown that your children are paying the price for your arrogance and entitlement.  Don't be surprised if more teachers leave and some leave mid-year from some of you and your children end up with more untrained subs and school staff babysitting your children instead of teaching them.[/quote]

Only an arrogant and entitled person would view parents wanting teachers to do their job and GRADE THE KIDS' WORK in a timely manner is arrogant or entitled. LOL. [/quote]

You are only contributing to the problem.  The problem right now is that the school administration and school board have pushed so many administrative tasks onto the teachers that they have less time per child.  In addition, as teachers leave the profession, the class sizes are rising, which again decreases time per child.  The teachers are overwhelmed.  Adding in parent teacher meetings will only exacerbate the problem by taking more and more time away from the teacher's ability to address anything for the bulk of children.

Your entire attitude will make the problem worse.  Parents like you are one of the primary reasons that teachers are leaving the profession.  Will you be happy if you decide to browbeat and harass the teacher and they decide to leave the profession and you get a long-term or short-term sub with no teaching credentials, no curriculum and no lesson plans to just make up busy work for your child for an entire quarter while they try to find someone to replace the teacher you helped to chase out?  Will you be happy if because of the harassment, that your child is no longer given homework at all just to allow the teacher to cut back to a 10 hour work day and a 55 hour work week?

Parents should be advocating with the school board to reduce administrative overhead tasks from teachers.  The teachers need to get many of those administrative tasks removed from their schedules so that they have more time in their schedules to address student issues.  Harassing and browbeating teachers is not going to improve your child's education.  But getting teacher's away from administrative tasks and back to teaching will.  Devote that aggression and energy into helping to improve teacher work conditions and you'll find it will have a bigger effect on improving your child's education than just piling on to the overwhelming schedule and tasks of your child's teacher.[/quote]

Parents like me have been your biggest supporter over the last 2 years- so your assumption made me laugh out loud just now. But, parents like me also expect that if I have a legitimate question and concern with my child's learning, and how DC is getting feedback, you will hear about it. If "parents like me" piss you off for doing that (and to be clear, I have not not had to do this thus far but would not hesitate) so be it.

Your admin burdens are not my problem. I will support you and all teachers to the maximum until you stop doing your job to effectively teach my kid. I don't care what you think about me, whether I"m a problem, etc. [/quote]

Just to clarify, I am not a teacher nor have I ever been a teacher.  I am a parent that gets along well with my children's teachers and I am as supportive as possible wherever and however I can be.  I do not DEMAND actions from my children's teachers, but I highlight issues and ask them to help me solve them.  I get answers because I act nicely and ask rather than demand.  And I am also more patient.  You seem to expect answers quickly and your imperious tone is very abrasive.  But go ahead, say you are a big supporter while treating them like a servant.[/quote]

Yes....kindness goes a long way. I'm not a servant and parents who behave that way will quickly know I am not their servant. Parents with this attitude are the ones who have kids who think they are the only one in my class....meanwhile I have 35 others in each class. It's an entitled attitude. To the parents who respect teachers and what they do thank you-we know who you are![/quote]

And just to clarify, if you can read, I have not NEEDED to do this with my kids' teachers yet. I am responding to the teacher or whoever it was that seemed to think they had no obligation to meet with parents, timely grade and provide feedback, and thinks that would fly with a lot of parents (including me). Yes, I do expect answers and in a timely manner - that is not unreasonable. My abrasive tone is on here and, so far, has not been needed with any teacher in FCPS. It is reserved her for the folks like you that seem to be making excuses for those that cannot seem to do their job. And think that is ok. It's not and I don't care what you think of my tone.

For two years, teachers have told parents that they are our "partners" in education and it was our job to get our kids through COVID - and I agree. And I did that. [b]But being a "partner" requires teachers to do their part and no chance I'd accept anything less than timely grading and feedback, voluntarily if I can get it but with more involvement from admin if that wasn't working. And yes, we are "entitled" to that. [/b]

I also don't need your validation of whether or not I am a supporter of teachers or not. I know the truth and what I have supported and advocated for and for whom in the last few years. I can be both a supporter of teachers while advocating for my child. Sorry you don't get that but that matters not even a little to me. [/quote]

Wrong. And many teachers have competent admin who will laugh off your entitlement when you “escalate” to them. Oh well.[/quote]

That's what numbers are for.

Bring 20 parents with you and they can't laugh it off.[/quote]

admin here. I’d laugh and provide you my superiors contact info. As well as the best places around my school for happy hour that can accommodate a group of 20 [/quote]

Laughing off the concerns of 20 parents with a flippant response? That is entirely unprofessional and entirely unfit for a public servant.

This is why parents no longer have respect for educators. [/quote]

[b]Can you imagine the media response to that one?

Fcps teachers refuse to grade timely. left and right would go nuts over that story.[/b]

Might even work too because teachers can complain they're overworked and get responsibilites pulled back.[/quote]

That is such a boring non-story that no media outlet would publish/cover it.[/quote]

I'd say fraud, waste and abuse is a pretty big story.
[/quote]

Abuse of what? Teachers? I agree.[/quote]

FCPS defines abuse as "[b]injurious to FCPS or its interests; and (ii) excessive, deficient or improper when compared with the conduct that a prudent person would consider reasonable and necessary governmental practice in light of the facts and circumstances known at the time. Abuse also includes misuse of FCPS
resources, authority or position which results, or could be expected to result, in injury to the school division, including reputational injury, whether such misuse is for personal interests or not. [/b]  Acts of fraud could result in a tangible or intangible benefit to others, or could cause injury to FCPS or its interests, or both. Waste also includes
incurring unnecessary costs as a result of inefficient or ineffective practices, systems, or controls.

If you are a teacher or administrator, I'm surprised you aren't familiar with the terms. I would assume that you would receive training on it, and would recognize that you are required by FCPS policy to immediately report it to your supervisor.

We have a scenario where teachers are failing to perform their assigned functions, and are receiving compensation. Per the FCPS definitions this corresponds to waste, fraud and abuse.

Then an administrator, when informed by a large number of parents that such an incident has occurred, refuses to report to their supervisor, as required, and instead dismisses the concern of 20 parents by telling them to meet at a restaurant.

If you don't see this as a problem with regards to being an injury to the school division,  including reputational injury, along with misuse of resources, incurring unnecessary costs and financial gains to public employees for not completing tasks and don't think that the media would find it newsworthy, then don't be surprised in what results should parents push the issue.

[/quote]

Let's take a look at this "injury" and "abuse" and "fraud," especially your allegation that employees are not "completing tasks."

I'm a high school teacher. I get 42 minutes a day to complete ALL of my work. That's 3.5 hours a week to do all of my planning and grading. Let's say I assign an essay to my 120 students. It will take me 10 minutes an essay to provide thorough feedback, which equals 20 hours of grading for that assignment alone. I'm supposed to give two "meaningful" assignments a week. Let's say the other assignment takes only 2 minutes to grade. Even so, that's an additional 4 hours of grading. I now have 24 hours of grading to complete that week and 3.5 hours during my work week to do it in. I also have to plan all of my lessons, which have to be updated every year. Assume that takes me an additonal 4 hours a week. I have to respond to emails, update data in student records, correspond with SPED about IEPs and 504s, complete mandatory trainings, etc. Assume that's another 5 hours of work a week. [b]I now have 33 hours of work to complete that week and 3.5 work hours to do it in. [/b]

So, when we want to talk about "injury" and "abuse," this is it. This is why teachers are leaving. For a parent to come here and argue that teachers are committing fraud? Wow. That parent has some serious nerve. To the parents who understand and are sympathetic, THANK YOU! I'll continue to do this with your support and I'll just ignore the unreasonable, entitled demands of others.[/quote]

You're a professional, not an hourly worker.  You don't have "only" 3.5 hours to get your job done. That means you work extra hours until the work is done in a timely manner.   We wouldn't expect any less from any other profession, such as CPAs, MDs, lawyers and engineers, all of whom are expected to work until the job is done at the sacrifice of their free time for no extra compensation. If you don't see teaching as a professional career, then don't be expected to be treated with the respect that a profession is due by members of the community.

If I characterize your argument correctly, you are alleging your workload is unreasonable.  I expect my kids work to be graded timely and to receive a high quality education from professional educators. If that means like a professional, you work a considerable number of "unpaid" hours, that comes with the job and should be a surprise to no one.

If you aren't completing the work in a timely manner, then yes by FCPS's own definitions you are indeed committing waste fraud and abuse.

[/quote]

I'm the PP. Here's where your argument falls apart. Yes, other salaried professions have to work over contracted hours. I am not buying that they regularly have this many extra hours to complete. I'm also guessing they have time AT WORK during which they can actually get work done. They are not delivering the equivalent of 30 hours of presentations a week, which is what a teacher does. Those 30 hours of presentations also EXHAUST us, leaving us with very little energy to do the 30+ hours of other tasks. I am also guessing they are much better compensated than a teacher is, which makes those extra hours more palatable.

I'm actually fascinated by how much you're doubling down. I tell you I have to work 65-70 hour weeks to be "timely," and your responses is, "so what?" Well, the "so what" is the fact teachers are leaving. You may think this is a reasonble workload, but we do not. Continue to make these entitled and delusional statements, and we will continue to leave the field. This does not help your child, which is what you initially claimed you are doing. If you want to help your child, then you need to help the teacher. Instead of all your "waste, fraud, and abuse" threats, try calling the district about unreasonable work demands that are keeping your teachers from getting things done in a timely manner. Work WITH us instead of being a thorn in our sides. [/quote]

I'll add:

Median salaries - 
CPAs $84K
MDs $198K
Lawyers  $128K
Engineers: $88K
I actually went with the LOWEST median salary I could find for any of these fields in the OOH. There's a wide variety based on type (civil vs aerospace engineers, etc.). Let's also remember that all of the fields you mention have the potential for growth. A teacher doesn't have a ton of upward mobility in title or in salary.

By contrast? 
Teachers $62K
Before you make some "but you get summers off" argument, know that I got 2 weeks this year. I spent my time taking classes for recertification and writing curriculum. I didn't get paid for either. As a salaried professional, ahem, I just did the work required of me over the summer for no pay.

It's great you compared teaching to those professional fields. I'll take my boost in pay now.
[/quote]

Thats nice, other professionals don't get that level of time off to complete their continuing/professional education unless they are on a sabbatical of some sort which is why compensation is structured the way it is for each profession.

Grading should be timely with no excuses.  Salaried professionals are compensated the way they are entirely because they don't work a 40 hour week.[/quote]

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