Reply to Does Baptism mean that you those who are not Baptized won't go to heaven?

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]I can't wrap my mind around this. If we commit to the Creed that "all those who believe in God shall not perish but have eternal life," what happens to those who are not Baptized? I guess that is the whole basis for proselytizing, to make sure everyone can go to heaven, right? But if I have problem believing that God is so vengeful and would really fault babies for their parents' decisions, then it seems hypocritical to baptize my child. I don't want to commit to something in a ceremony that I don't fully endorse.

Where does that leave me? Anyone else struggle with this?[/quote]

My spouse is Catholic and insisted our kid be baptized. I went along with it because I see no real harm in it.  The kid is an adult now and is not at all religious.  Frankly, I don't see what  difference it makes one way or the other.  [/quote]

It doesn't make any difference to you and it had no effect - or not the desired one - on your kid.  But it meant something to your wife at the time.  In her mind, the kid would've gone to heaven if it died while still a kid.[/quote]

Again, the kid doesn't get into heaven.  Something called the soul does.  But you are right, maybe the point is for the living to have comfort that baptism gets their loved ones into heaven regardless of whether it does or not.[/quote]

As I understand it, baptism is just symbolic anyway.  Washing away the "sins."  Like a helpless baby (who can't consent to this ritual) has any sins. [/quote]

The Catholic Church at least certainly does not consider baptism symbolic. Original sin is quite serious in the Catholic Church.[/quote]

If it is not symbolic, what are the implications of not being baptized?[/quote]

For the Catholic Church, the implication is not going to heaven.

How is this not obvious? This is the core tenet of Catholicism, at least. [/quote]

Other people who say they are Catholic on this thread have said differently.

Are you saying that Catholicism maintains that the only people in heaven are those who have been baptized?[/quote]

Yes. If that is not true, then what is the significance of being saved? What is the purpose of telling anyone to accept Jesus? What is the relevance of salvation? Why should I want to be saved? [/quote]

No, you need to brush up on your own religion. That is not the Catholic position at all.[/quote]

I’m not Catholic. But is it not true that the Catholic Church teaches that, in order to get into heaven, you must be baptized and accept Jesus?[/quote]

No, that is not a full and true description of the Catholic view. A simple google search will lead you to many discussion about it. [/quote]

Really? The Pope has come out and said now that you don't need to accept Jesus to get into heaven?  Is that what you're saying?[/quote]

Yeah, I’m very confused. PP, can you explain? My mom is Catholic—went to 12 years of Catholic diocese school—and always said that the Church’s view is that you have to accept Jesus to go to heaven. Part of that is getting baptized. That’s not her personal view (she didn’t raise us Catholic, for one), but she’s always said that’s a core teaching of the Church. [/quote]

DP, but obviously Pope Francis spoke after you or your mom went to school. Theological positions change. I’m not Catholic, fwiw. But if the pope says something, my understanding is that what he says rules, not what you or your mom were taught decades ago.[/quote]

So when did the Pope say you don’t have to accept Jesus to go to heaven? You keep telling us all that we’re wrong, but provide no evidence.[/quote]

I posted this earlier.  It was written by a Catholic Bishop:

The Catholic Church absolutely does NOT say that anyone at all is surely in Hell.

https://www.wordonfire.org/articles/barron/is-hell...-empty-a-catholic-perspective/

“Think of God’s life as a party to which everyone is invited, and think of Hell as the sullen corner into which someone who resolutely refuses to join the fun has sadly slunk. What this image helps us to understand is that language which suggests that God “sends” people to Hell is misleading. As C.S. Lewis put it so memorably: the door that closes one into Hell (if there is anyone there) is locked from the inside…

… God is love and that human beings are free. The divine love, freely rejected, results in suffering. And yet, we may, indeed we should, hope that God’s grace will, in the end, wear down the even the most recalcitrant sinner.”[/quote]

? That's completely non-response.  The question is whether the position of the Catholic church is (or is not) that a person must believe in Jesus to get into heaven.  [/quote]

In Catholicism, it's a given that you have to believe in Jesus to get to heaven, but there's a lot more to Catholicism than that.  You have to have.received the sacraments, have a clean soul, follow the tenets of the church, etc., etc.

"Accepting Jesus as your savior" and "Taking Jesus into your heart" are evangelical Protestant things, not Catholic things. Catholicism is much more complex and sophisticated than that.[/quote]

Wait, it’s not consistent with Catholicism to say “I’ve accepted Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior”?[/quote]

Correct.[/quote]

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