Reply to Is it ethical to outsource pregnancy?

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]People on this thread know nothing about surrogacy in practice and just throw their opinions in the pot. 
We used a surrogate. She was not poor. She agreed to carry the baby and go to the doctor and deliver at a hospital. Other than that she did whatever she wanted to do. We kept in touch of course and there were lots of legalities doctors lawyers etc etc. She DID NOT want another baby and gladly gave the baby to us. We paid her. I wish we could have paid her more but the RE made the most money. [/quote]

And the surrogacy agency, which none of these fools have mentioned. You want to see where the biggest ethical issues are, look there.

I, too, am an parent through surrogacy. I raised these same points a few pages back, as have other IPs. People completely ignored my post. The folks arguing here have zero understanding of the facts and reality of how this actually works. They simply prefer to fight the things they can imagine without knowledge or experience. It’s fascinating and appalling in equal measure.

I fear for this country if this is what constitutes honest debate.[/quote]

But ethics isn't just telling personal stories about how everything is peachy and no one was harmed. It's moral philosophy. So you have to take all possibilities into account.

Even if you are being Utilitarian- you have to look at both sides of the tracks of the Trolly Problem. Not just tell about how great it was that you were on the side of the ten. [/quote]

Oh did you finally go read the wikipedia page on ethics? Now you know fun buzz words like utilitarianism and the details of the trolley problem?

Moral philosophy fails if it does not confront reality. Kant's morality could never be applied to the real world. And I studied philosophy and college me was a lot like you, believing there was a right and a wrong and that allowing pesky things like context to alter your moral code was wrong.

But the real world context for ethical problems is critical to making ethical structures that actually hold up in the real world. Grow up PP, it is difficult to figure out how to navigate life doing the most good, and the least amount of harm. Like you said, you need to take all possibilities into account. In our country, with organ donation as an example you have frequently cited, we have decided we are more ok with people dying of preventable kidney failure than we are paying people to donate kidneys (and that isn't me saying that is the right or wrong choice, just saying that is the choice we have made). You want to make the choice to deprive families of wanted children and women of wanted work in order to ensure that no woman is ever taken advantage of. I don't agree with that choice but I can understand making it. You refuse to see the other half of the equation you are putting out there, and so honestly I think your opinion is not fully considered. You aren't grappling with consequences of your preferred choice, you just want it to be the unquestionable better choice. But there are almost no real world ethical conundrums where there is an easy correct choice. Your unwillingness to face that makes you a poor arguer and someone who I would never want making large decisions for society.[/quote]

Why does it bother you so much that someone has come to a different conclusion than you did? Why do you need to resort to insults and saying their opinion isn't well-considered? B.c you are the final arbiter?

Paid kidney donation I feel has more risk of harm than benefit-- because dialysis machines exist. People can live for a very long time with this technology. Sure it's time consuming but it is life-saving.

I think the case for transactional surrogacy is worse even than paid organ donation. Having your own biological baby is completely optional. It does not save the life of another human. (Barring having a baby to donate bone marrow to a sibling etc which is a whole different topic)

Maybe there will come a time I would change my mind. I do get the point of it being work. But where we are now, as a society, I just see too much exploitation of workers and a multitude of other problems (for profit healthcare, weak unions, more billionaires than ever etc) for me to trust the harm/benefit ratio would be at an acceptable level. 
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