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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]

All that is fine but the US per capita consumption is still the highest by a mile. Imagine if everyone wants to consume at the Same level in ROW, and that’s what we are seeing today. The US should set good precedent NOT consumerist precedent that everyone wants to follow. A great nation should set a great example for others to follow. We are setting bad precedent in everything: selecting a conman by slavery era EC to needlessly big homes to BIG SUVs to conspicuous consumerism to poor public transit. An educated and smart people are supposed to think for the society and future generations NOT me me me shortsighted selfishness. It is sad. [/quote]

Once again, consumption is strongly correlated to quality of life: countries with higher quality of life will consume more by definition. Saying that the US per-capita consumption is the highest is not saying much beyond that the US has a high quality of life. By the way, the US does not have the highest consumption "by a mile". You can check the per-capita rankings here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_household_final_consumption_expenditure_per_capita

I don't understand why you think consumption is bad. I agree it has become somewhat popular among impressionable youth to criticize consumerism as it is an idea supported by socialism and Marxist thought.  It feeds into their sense of rebellion, to be counter-cultural. So edgy, so exciting! [/quote]

Consumption will be more by $ amount because things are expensive in Europe even though Europeans consumes lot less. That is not a good measure at all.

Let us take carbon emissions/capita in which US is the leading emitter among large countries. If a county like Qatar with tiny population emits a lot per capita it is insignificant in global scale because of their tiny population.

https://cotap.org/per-capita-carbon-co2-emissions-by-country/

It is not true that countries with higher income consume the most because there are other factors like tax, subsidies that affect consumption. Western Europe is as rich as the US but their per capita consumption is lot less because they work to reduce emissions unlike the SUV driving Americans. Europeans also use public transit, get a big portion of their electricity from renewables and nuclear energy.

So the US is not a torch bearer when it comes to carbon emissions and infact we are the worst culprit since we are the only ones that pulled out of paris summit. [/quote]

Thanks for fixing the quotes. Things cost more in Europe but that doesn't suddenly mean a dollar spent in Europe somehow has less value than a dollar in the US. If an egg costs $2 in Europe, that egg represents $2 of economic value in Europe, even if the egg only contributes $1 of economic value in the US since it only sells for $1 here. What counts is the dollar value, not what the underlying good/service is. Different goods/services have different values to different people in different locations.

I agree with the observation that the US has higher greenhouse gas emissions per capita compared to other developed countries. This is definitely one area we need to improve on. My point in this regard is that if you look at our energy use and emissions history, it is going in the right direction: energy consumption per $ GDP is going down, and our overall emissions are also going down despite growing population and growing consumption. Our goal should be to continue driving towards further efficiency. Consumerism is not the problem, it is the solution.

I am puzzled by your Paris accord comment. Were you not aware of the recent revelation that China is responsible for damaging the ozone layer to the detriment of decades of efforts by the US and European countries? Guess who is a Paris Accord signatory? How is being a part of the Paris Accord meaningful when most of the developed countries that are part of the Paris Accord failed to meet the proposed emission reduction goals. Guess which country achieved the largest reduction in carbon emissions? Read this:

https://capitalresearch.org/article/u-s-achieves-largest-decrease-in-carbon-emissionswithout-the-paris-climate-accord/

Again, don't fall into the common liberal trap of thinking that defaulting to some international body means a country is doing the right thing. Results matter. Empty promises don't. [/quote]

If price is more demand goes down and consumption is less, duh! Simple economics.

Regardless,.US is still the highest per capita emitter and unless that goes down we can't accuse anyone else.

That US emissions went down is due to coal being economically enviable and due to thousands of cases filed against coal plants because they don't meet pollution standards. Bloomberg and Tom Styer together are responsible in shutting down hundreds of polluting power plants using their billions to fight against global warming.

Then another issue is the liberal states set the Fuel efficiency standards and in this regard CA and NY set the path and the rest of America including the laggard red states follow. CA hasn't budged on obama era fuel efficiency standards because it is STATE RIGHTS. So the auto manufacturers are not gonna make two cars, one clean car for blue and another polluting set of cars for red states. So thank the Blue states for being the leader and TRUMP can't do much to stop CA.

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I think you are confusing the economic concept of consumption with how much physical goods/services are actually consumed.

If an egg costs $1 and at this price level 10 eggs were consumed, consumption is $10. If an egg costs $2 and at this price level 7 eggs were consumed, consumption is $14, even though only 7 eggs were consumed. What you probably didn't realize is that the economic value of an egg is not measured in the egg but in the cost, because the cost factors in a variety of other inputs and costs in the supply chain, as well as taxes and regulatory compliance. A clearer example may be this: organic sustainable-farmed eggs cost more at your local supermarket because more effort/costs went into the production of those eggs. That egg embodies these additional qualities which you as a consumer is paying for and consuming. For this reason, the actual consumption dollar amount, not the specific physical good/service purchased, is the true measure of consumption.

I feel like I am having to repeat this many times: the US greenhouse gas emissions have indeed been going down despite higher population growth and increased consumption:

[img]https://www.epa.gov/sites/production/files/styles/large/public/2019-04/us-greenhouse-gas-emissions-economic-1990-2017.png[/img]

And it has also been decreasing on a per-capita basis:

[img]https://www.epa.gov/sites/production/files/styles/large/public/2016-07/us-ghg-emissions-download3-2016.png[/img][/quote]

I never made the point that US carbon emissions per capita is NOT DECREASING, But that it is still the highest among major countries. You agreed to my point that consumption is reduced when price is increased. The earth doesn't care about economic value. The more the consumption the higher the need to increase production and the higher the need to clear tree filled forests to make way for farms.

The clearing of trees due to increasing consumption and increase in consumption of beef(it takes 10X the resources to produce 1lb of beef) are directly propoetional to increase in consumption.

[/quote]

DP: The most reliable and scalable way to reduce carbon emissions right now is .... nuclear energy.

Let's give credit to Trump (and Perry) for this:

Trump adds $3.7B in support to finish 2 new nuclear reactors
https://www.apnews.com/38189fb0550e401da6b339ad9870a007
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