Reply to Muslim women speak out against the hijab as an element of political Islam

Forum Index » Religion

Reply to "Muslim women speak out against the hijab as an element of political Islam"

Subject:

Emoticons





More smilies

Text Color: Font: Close Marks

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]In America, we respect the right for others to dress as they choose.  We allow for freedom of religion. Therefore, if you want to wear oppressive clothing, I won't stop you.  I won't say anything to you about it.  I would not refuse to serve you at my business, nor would I practice or support discrimination against you.

But in the privacy of my thoughts, I will have no respect for you and will view you as a brainwashed idiot.

Unless hijab is worn by both men and women, it is oppressive to women, period, and I will despise it.[/quote]
Why are your feelings important? Who exactly is clamoring for your respect?[/quote]

I knew some idiot would respond with this.  I don't really care who wants my respect.    It's just an opinion.  It's what we write here.  If you don't care to know about it, go elsewhere. [/quote]
It's not that I don't care to know it (although I don't), it's the sheer ridiculous value in you using your feelings as an argument that you think holds any weight. "You should agree with me! If you don't, I won't respect you and think you're an idiot!"  Yeah, that's definitely going to win the hearts and minds.  Not. [/quote]

I don't think PP was making an argument,  She was simply stating how she views those wearing a hijab.  Her assumption is that they are brainwashed.  This is on par with those who say if they see a person who is markedly unkempt in public they assume they are either homeless or have mental health problems.

People do and must use heuristics or shortcuts that use outer appearance to make quick assessments of another's circumstances in order to process the world and decide on a next action without being overwhelmed.  More information, though, may change the judgment made through the heuristic.  PP's heuristic for a hijab wearer is brainwashed woman, not much gong on there, and, possibly, not worth my time and more deserving of my pity.

Hijab wearers may or may not care that people see the scarf and make a quick judgment that she is brainwashed or arrogant or of extremist views.  But I am guessing that at least some of them think the hijab should be seen as a positive message of their love and respect for God and man.  I think I can safely say that is probably not the default heuristic for the vast majority of Americans.[/quote]
The default heuristic for the vast majority of Americans is determined by the behavior of the community first, and its dress code second. No one thinks badly about nuns despite their ridiculous outfits because nuns are famous for the good deeds (generalizing).  [b]If Muslims were known primarily for charity, top scientific achievements, kindness to neighbors and superior intelligence, no one would care what their women dress like. In fact, people would have looked up to the hijabis if that was the case. [/b]Right now Muslims have a bad rap, so their women share it. That's about it.[/quote]

You are assuming that Muslim women performing great works of charity and performing brilliantly in the sciences and other spheres would be hijabis. Evidence to date suggest Muslim women doing those things do not wear the hijab.  And that certainly may not be a coincidence.

At least I hope that is your assumption.  Because if you are talking about Muslim men making these achievements but their wives are staying at home in their hijabs you are mistaken if you think people would look up to these women.  And, yes, people would think less of these men for marrying brainwashed women.

Interesting that in your last sentence--"Muslims have a bad rap, so their wives share it"--the word Muslim is used to mean Muslim men.  Kind of conveys only men are fully Muslim; women are just an appendage thereof that get the reflected glory or infamy.  This points to a reading of your earlier comments as having the second meaning I described above.

This pretty much sums up just about everything that is dislikeable about the hijab.

[/quote]
Way to make up a hill of bullshit that wasn't in the post to fit your narrative. Wives staying at home? Brainwashed women? Their "wives" share it?  Can you even read or do you just make it up as you go along?[/quote]

Pardon me.  What you said is, "Right now Muslims have a bad rap, so their women (not wives as I wrote) share it."  You also said, "If Muslims were known primarily for charity, top scientific achievements, kindness to neighbors and superior intelligence, no one would care what their women dress like."

[b]In both cases, Muslims are to one side and their women are to the other.  Implicitly then, Muslims in both these cases refer to Muslim men.  That is, Muslims of any importance, whether engaging in achievements or getting notoriety, are males.  The women are just along for whatever ride comes out of their men's actions and are not themselves engaging in the achievements or the primary targets of the bad rap.[/b]

This is the total subsuming into men that many of us has said the hijab represents for women and your words confirm that is precisely what is happening in Islam today.  
[/quote]
That's the part you  made up.  I get it, it works for your narrative, so more power to you.[/quote]

Perhaps English is not your first language?

Language matters.  When you write "Muslims and their women" you are ascribing male gender only to Muslims.  No females because they are captured by "and their women."  And you did this twice.

So clearly you meant if Muslim men had great achievements, no one would care that their women wear hijabs and would in fact would look up to them.  Presumably to gaze upon the reflected glory of their accomplished husbands, fathers, sons, or brothers.  And no one would notice or care about their subservient status because a man's great accomplishments make up for it all.[/quote]

Options

	Disable HTML in this message
	Disable BB Code in this message
	Disable smilies in this message

Review message

Search Recent Topics Hottest Topics