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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]We are an atheist family raising our children in the secular tradition. I absolutely love secular Christmas and have a blast taking in all the experiences. That being said, the focus on consumerism and waste has really gotten under my skin in recent years. I have done my part to slow or stop the adult gift giving and am trying to limit the amount of new in box plastic that comes in for the kids. They already have so many toys from past birthdays, Christmases, and one off visits, we have so little space, and it makes me feel very Grinchy to have to spend my precious vacation time with them around the holidays purging their spaces just to make room for junk they’ll forget in two weeks. All that is to say, Grandma’s joy brings me a lot of grief.

I am very generous with loved ones on their birthdays and special occasions. But I’d rather spend time with them and enjoy experiences with them than opening gifts.

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Your post about “secular Christmas” is offensive. If you scoff at that, please go post threads about Secular Yom Kippur, Secular Ramadan, and Secular Rosh Hannakuh and get back to us.  [/quote]

Dp You know what pp?  You chose to be offended so that is on you.  People do celebrate secular Christmas unlike the other holidays  you mentioned.  
I don't know why you are so offended on how other people live their lives.  We should be allowed to share our views.[/quote]

I think pp is being naive, so many 'cultural' christians and atheist families enjoy Christmas as a secular family get together holiday barely giving any thought to the Christian element. Some of my Buddhist family members in Thailand enjoy Christmas too! Wasn't it documented that JC was born in the summer?[/quote]

The Catholic Church started Christmas via Pope Constantine.

CHRIST + MASS.  Mass = catholic church service.

It's absolutely a Christian holiday.

If atheists or people of other faiths decorate Christmas trees and exchange gifts, it doesn't change fact that it's a Christian holiday.  When I attend a Hannukah dinner, or join an Eid celebration, it doesn't secularize their holiday.  How offensive to even suggest that for any religion!! [/quote]
Sorry to be the one to inform you, but it has been co-opted and is absolutely celebrated as a non-religious holiday by many, despite its origins. [/quote]

This is not a zero sum game.

Facts:

1)  Christmas is a Christian holiday

2)  Non-Christians participate in Christmas.

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3) The Church deliberately picked a winter day close to many peoples' pagan winter Holy Days to facilitate assimilation. And

4) Northerners incorporated trees and other broadly celtic symbolism into their Christian celebration.

Both of these reasons are why people say "the origins of Christmas are pagan". You need to exercise subtlety of understanding, PP, something that lies woefully dormant somewhere inside you.

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I'm 7th Day Adventist.  We have books about the pagan prelude to Christmas.  You "need" to choose your words more carefully to be "subtle," and stop assuming and misreading the room and "woefully" underestimating my knowledge of this topic.  God bless![/quote]

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