Reply to Does Baptism mean that you those who are not Baptized won't go to heaven?

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Reply to "Does Baptism mean that you those who are not Baptized won't go to heaven?"

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]I can't wrap my mind around this. If we commit to the Creed that "all those who believe in God shall not perish but have eternal life," what happens to those who are not Baptized? I guess that is the whole basis for proselytizing, to make sure everyone can go to heaven, right? But if I have problem believing that God is so vengeful and would really fault babies for their parents' decisions, then it seems hypocritical to baptize my child. I don't want to commit to something in a ceremony that I don't fully endorse.

Where does that leave me? Anyone else struggle with this?[/quote]

My spouse is Catholic and insisted our kid be baptized. I went along with it because I see no real harm in it.  The kid is an adult now and is not at all religious.  Frankly, I don't see what  difference it makes one way or the other.  [/quote]

It doesn't make any difference to you and it had no effect - or not the desired one - on your kid.  But it meant something to your wife at the time.  In her mind, the kid would've gone to heaven if it died while still a kid.[/quote]

Again, the kid doesn't get into heaven.  Something called the soul does.  But you are right, maybe the point is for the living to have comfort that baptism gets their loved ones into heaven regardless of whether it does or not.[/quote]

As I understand it, baptism is just symbolic anyway.  Washing away the "sins."  Like a helpless baby (who can't consent to this ritual) has any sins. [/quote]

The Catholic Church at least certainly does not consider baptism symbolic. Original sin is quite serious in the Catholic Church.[/quote]

If it is not symbolic, what are the implications of not being baptized?[/quote]

For the Catholic Church, the implication is not going to heaven.

How is this not obvious? This is the core tenet of Catholicism, at least. [/quote]

Other people who say they are Catholic on this thread have said differently.

Are you saying that Catholicism maintains that the only people in heaven are those who have been baptized?[/quote]

Yes. If that is not true, then what is the significance of being saved? What is the purpose of telling anyone to accept Jesus? What is the relevance of salvation? Why should I want to be saved? [/quote]

No, you need to brush up on your own religion. That is not the Catholic position at all.[/quote]

I’m not Catholic. But is it not true that the Catholic Church teaches that, in order to get into heaven, you must be baptized and accept Jesus?[/quote]

No, that is not a full and true description of the Catholic view. A simple google search will lead you to many discussion about it. [/quote]

Really? The Pope has come out and said now that you don't need to accept Jesus to get into heaven?  Is that what you're saying?[/quote]

Yeah, I’m very confused. PP, can you explain? My mom is Catholic—went to 12 years of Catholic diocese school—and always said that the Church’s view is that you have to accept Jesus to go to heaven. Part of that is getting baptized. That’s not her personal view (she didn’t raise us Catholic, for one), but she’s always said that’s a core teaching of the Church. [/quote]

DP, but obviously Pope Francis spoke after you or your mom went to school. Theological positions change. I’m not Catholic, fwiw. But if the pope says something, my understanding is that what he says rules, not what you or your mom were taught decades ago.[/quote]

So when did the Pope say you don’t have to accept Jesus to go to heaven? You keep telling us all that we’re wrong, but provide no evidence.[/quote]

Where did anyone higher up in the Catholic Church say that you did?[/quote]

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church: Heaven is the blessed community of all who are perfectly incorporated into Christ.

Here’s more detail from the Catechism:

1023 Those who die [b]in God's grace and friendship and are perfectly purified[/b] live for ever with Christ. They are like God for ever, for they "see him as he is," face to face: 598

By virtue of our apostolic authority, we define the following: According to the general disposition of God, [b]the souls of all the saints . . . and other faithful who died after receiving Christ's holy Baptism (provided they were not in need of purification when they died, . . . or, if they then did need or will need some purification, when they have been purified after death, . . .) [/b]already before they take up their bodies again and before the general judgment - and this since the Ascension of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ into heaven - [b]have been, are and will be in heaven, in the heavenly Kingdom and celestial paradise with Christ, joined to the company of the holy angels.[/b] Since the Passion and death of our Lord Jesus Christ, these souls have seen and do see the divine essence with an intuitive vision, and even face to face, without the mediation of any creature. 599

https://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/catechism/index.cfm?recnum=3246

I don’t understand why this is so complicated for you. [/quote]

Am I reading something different?  
This doesn’t say anything about people who aren’t baptized at all.

As a Catholic, what I actually find the most bizarre about the Church’s teachings is the part that you haven’t bolded…”they take up their bodies again.”  It’s in the Apostle’s Creed too…”I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy Catholic Church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, [b]the resurrection of the body[/b], and life everlasting.”

Are we all going to be a bunch of zombies?  What is this?

[/quote]

Dying “in God’s grace” requires being baptized. I think the resurrection of the body means what will happen at the second coming, when we are all subjected to the final judgment (aka the end of days). [/quote]

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