Reply to QANON/MAGA rally in Lansing, MI

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]It’s it at all surprising that so many of you will go out of your way to defend nonviolent civil disobedience unless it doesn’t meet your purpose. 
You people are hypocrites. [/quote]

Those morons just infected each other and will pass it on to MeeMa in their rural towns. They literally just spread the virus all over the state because they don't know how to practice self-discipline.

If they act like spoiled children, they should get the belt.

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If Donald Trump instituted a nationwide ban on public assembly and protests until there were ZERO coronavirus deaths would you be okay with that? What if he bans voting this November because coronavirus will still be around?

Tyranny is always brought on and accepted by myopic dolts like you because of national emergencies. It’s the same reason Muslims were stripped naked, tortured and treated like dogs in Abu Ghraib after 9/11. Shame on people like you for criticizing people for exercising their First Amendment freedoms. The Constitution and the Bill of Rights don’t have stipulations that they should be suspended for a virus with a .5% to 2% mortality rate.

Imagine what kind of dystopian police state you all would accept for a virus with a 25% mortality rate. Events like these really make you realize how fragile our democracy and freedoms actually are.[/quote]

Very well-said!![/quote]

A few things:

1. Part of the problem is most people don't trust Donald Trump to make decisions for the benefit of Americans instead of for his own vain gain. So if he issued an order of course we'd question and dissent. That's why he should have tried hard to build trust through, I don't know, telling the truth and acting in our interest during his first three years in office. He'd have more political capital now.

2. I agree there is a tension between freedom and safety with these stay at home orders that is very hard to navigate. Again, communities with trust are more receptive to these orders, and I feel ilke - to beat a dead horse - that's why it's so important to have leaders who act in our interest (and believe in science and sht like that).

3. It's real hard to know how the first amendment is going to bump up against social distancing requirements. We'll see some interesting litigation, I imagine.
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By your logic in response #1, only politicians you don’t like can subvert people’s Constitutional rights. That is completely irrational imo. The mistrust you have for Trump is the same mistrust a lot of people on the other side had for Obama. Politicians don’t get to annul the Bill of Rights and the Constitution based on how much half the country trusts them.[/quote]

Part of the problem with polarization in our country IS that there's almost by definition going to be a whole lot of mistrust. Politicians can try to tamp that down by behaving with integrity - I'd expect you would see more of a rally around the flag effect in that case. Or they can do as Trump has done, and really lean into what makes hi so disgusting and despicable and untrustworthy to so many of us. You can only say "don't believe what's before your own eyes" so many times before we just think you are a no class lying POS every time you open your mouth.[/quote]

Also you are begging the question when you call what's happening now "subverting people's Constitutional rights." I don't think it is, though - as I said - I'll be interested to see how inevitable litigation does. Certainly, the perception of whether your rights are being subverted depends in part on whether you trust the person making you stay home. It's kind of a vicious circle. But just to answer the most extreme part of your contention - I do think, yes, people would be willing to temporarily give up some rights if a leader they trusted said it was the only way to protect everyone. Not trusting the leader makes people less willing to comply.

Trump screwed himself by screwing us, in other words.[/quote]

Good examples are Mike DeWine in Ohio or Hogan in Maryland. Democrats in those states have trusted them because he's generally been acting with integrity, relying on the scientists, not making farcical claims about the virus, and just handling this in a very serious and non-partisan manner. Republicans in those states are staying mum, because those Governors are seen as being on "their team."

But why are Republicans flipping out when Democrat governors take the same approaches as GOP Governors? My guess is that Republicans view Democrat rule as inherently illegitimate, even when Democrats are adopting the same exact policies as Republican leaders. I don't know how we fix this poisoned mindset among Republican voters. They seem to revel in spiting a policy solely because a Democrat is enforcing it, despite the Republican governor of the state next door doing the same thing.

In my view, Democrats have a significantly higher degree of social trust than Republicans. I don't know if this mistrust stems from a physiological condition, personal history, or merely projecting their own scheming ways onto others (eg., Republicans want to suppress others therefore assume everyone else will try to suppress them...which isn't true). 
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I listen to a fair bit of right wing talk radio to get an idea of what "conservatives" are thinking. It is nonstop complaining about Democrats and liberals and anyone not on the right as being sick, crazy, insane, weird, alien, confused, etc... Anyone working for the government is an incompetant and an unelected beaurocrat. There is mistrust of academics or subject matter experts as not having common sense. I don't watch Fox News and the others tv news outlets but I suspect it's similar.
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