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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]I thought below was an interesting perspective from a Yahoo poster.  Usually Yahoo comments are despicably racist but I thought this comment was interesting even though I disagree on one of his opinions.

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WJ Alden • 17 hours ago
As a private university, Harvard should have the right o admit whomever it wants. Of course most people at Harvard don't think businesses should have the right to hire whomever they want, so I guess they can't use that argument.

However, while Asians in the US may do better, on average, than non-Asians, they do not outperform the rest of us to a degree that suggests they should be >20% of Ivy League student bodies. Whether in politics, business, or culture, the evidence just isn't there. Are universities supposed to stick purely to grades and test scores - on which Asians do really, really well - to decide whom to admit, or [b]can they look at post-college performance to understand that those aren't great predictors of our future elite?[/b]

If you look at just grades and test scores you could probably make a strong case that elite universities are discriminating against Asians. A look at post-college success, though, greatly weakens the case.

[/quote]

Of course not. It's still white's world out there.  I must tell you, I am tired of people making Asian kids so one dimentional - like they can't do anything other than GPA and test scores. The fact that they perform at a higher level (w/ GPA/test scores) doesn't mean they can't do other things.  [/quote]

What else can they do?[/quote]

Anec-data here....

The Val of my DD's high school class was Asian. Of course, he had the 4.0 unweighted GPA, 5s in 7+ APs, and the 2300 plus SAT I/800 SAT IIs. But on top of that, he was a varsity swimmer at a state-qualifying level (24 hour/week commitment in season, 15/hour/week out of season), president of two clubs, NHS, firsts in state science fair every year. He also had a part time job (lifeguarding).

Shut out of every Ivy.

[/quote]As CalTech becomes increasingly Asian (over 60% to date), just how many students, Asian and non-Asian with the credentials you listed above will be shut out of not just CalTech but of every Ivy?  Even if it were 100%, there are just so many seats.  Then what?

[b]Also, the credentials you listed above are not unusual, not by a long shot. [/b] Mosey on over to College Confidential.  Those attributes are becoming a dime a dozen.[/quote]

There were probably 3-4 thousand kids last year w/ 2300+ SATs out of 1.6 million test takers.  Add on all the rest of the accomplishments and I seriously doubt kids like these are "a dime a dozen".   There was an AA kid last year with a 2250 on the SATs, not top 10 in his class that everyone freaked out about because he got into every single one of the Ivies.  Had be been Asian (or possibly even white) he would have been kicked to the curb.
[/quote]3 or 4 thousand.  2000 spots.  Do the math.[/quote]

There were 23,000 kids admitted to the Ivy league schools last year.  I did the math.[/quote]You're not just talking about Harvard, obviously.  I don't think you or anyone will be happy until either the  accept only whites or only Asians.  But eventually, you will be at war with each other.  Give it time.[/quote]

Yes, the "Shut out of every Ivy" line kind of led me to believe we were talking about "every Ivy".  I don't care what color the kids are; I just think it should be based on merit.  Honestly though, Ivy league schools are private; they can do what they want.  I do think affirmative action should be eliminated for public schools or at the very least be changed to be socio-economic based.   [b]The URM kids getting into the Ivy league schools are generally quite well off.[/b][/quote]

The kid from Banneker who was accepted to five of the Ivies is not well off.  Neither is the kid from Brooklyn who was also accepted to several Ivies.   What data do you base your statement on PP?[/quote]

Yep, neither was the one i married, or one of my best friends, or the guy next door to us, or...   Yeah, that pp just makes stuff up. [/quote]

Here's one article that talks about what I was remembering:  http://magazine.good.is/articles/ivy-league-fooled-how-america-s-top-colleges-avoid-real-diversity

From the article:  "Call it the Ivy League’s dirty little secret: While America’s most elite colleges do in fact make it a point to promote ethnic diversity on their campuses, a lot of them do so by admitting hugely disproportionate numbers of wealthy immigrants and their children rather than black students with deep roots—and troubled histories—in the United States."

There was another article that said that 85+% of the AA kids at ivy league schools were from middle-class and up families.  I.e. not the types of folks you would expect to need affirmative action.   I'll look and see if I can find that article as well, but I'm not just pulling stuff out of thin air.[/quote]

And what percent of the white and Asian kids are from middle class and up?  Bet it's at least 85. [/quote]

Absolutely.  But affirmative action should be for people that have disadvantages in life, not just to balance the distribution of races.  The AA child of a doctor shouldn't need affirmative action.[/quote]

Says who?  Let me guess, you're not a URM?  I think the day when affirmative action isn't merited will be the day when black boys in hoodies aren't shot for carrying skittles.  I have kids who are URMs, and they are the kids of extremely well-educated professionals.  But yes, I've seen racism happen to them.  Even in their schools and every by their teachers.  And they're not even 6 yet.  And they're only 2 generations removed from complete illiteracy.
I do agree that there ought to be some consideration for socioeconomic background, but schools do actually consider this as well (though I'd argue not nearly enough).  You do definitely get a bump from being the first in your family to go to college.   But does that mean race doesn't matter?  No.  Hell no.  [/quote]

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