Reply to Really don't like seeing the signs on Christian churches offering Seders

Forum Index » Religion

Reply to "Really don't like seeing the signs on Christian churches offering Seders"

Subject:

Emoticons





More smilies

Text Color: Font: Close Marks

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]One last attempt to help Christians understand why Jews might not like the idea of a Christian seder:

http://www.episcopalcafe.com/daily/interfaith/say_no_to_christian_seders.php[/quote]

I see nothing in this post that hasn't already been said here.  It's a false equivalency to suggest that a Jew or Muslim "play-acting" the Eucharist is the same thing as a reenact of the Last Supper, which is at the very root of the Christian faith.  But we have all registered your arguments and I am sorry you take such offense, especially when it is not intended.

I want to ask a serious question.  What, if anything, can be done to move past the history of persecution?  I'm not down-playing it by any means, but I don't understand how Christians ignoring or denying the fact that their religion has its roots in Judaism is helpful to that cause.[/quote]

OK, I am going to get sucked back in at the risk of being called dense, stupid and an asshole.

I will answer your serious question with a serious answer: nothing. There is no moving past persecution for Jews, it is essential to how we view ourselves. It is how we have stayed a cohesive unit under the most hostile circumstances. As a child you are taught about the persecution of Jews as soon as you are old enough to talk. No judgement here, it is just a cultural fact.

As for Christian roots: Passover seder (which someone pointed out means "order") as we know it was not established until after the destruction of the second temple in 70 AD. I don't really know how Passover was celebrated in the time of Jesus, but it could not have been with a "seder." That is post-Jesus, and therefore not part of Christian roots.

So that makes me (and other Jews) think that the Christians doing this know very little about Judaism and don't really care to find out.

Going to a Jewish seder sends the opposite message, that you care about learning about Judaism and its rituals.

Another interesting take:

http://rabbibarry.wordpress.com/2007/04/01/the-passover-and-the-last-supper/

[/quote]

Thank you for sharing the rabbi's blog.  It is indeed informative.  I think the point that the churches should simply call their reenactment of the Last Supper something different is a point well taken.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but the main concern here seems to be the fact of calling something that you and many scholars feel was not, in historical context, an actual seder is the problem?  And not the actual fact of doing the reenactment or of acknowledging Jesus' life as a Jew?  Correct?[/quote]

That would be take on it (as a Jew). I think reenacting the Last Supper is lovely. However, calling it a seder -- which historically it could not have been, as others have pointed out -- appears to co-opt centuries of Jewish tradition. It feels insulting. I know it isn't meant to be, but it feels that way. It is even more bizarre to me because I read some of the links others posted of the Christian "seders," and they bore absolutely no resemblance to the seders I grew up with, except for the name and the concept of doing things in a set order. The actual actions, the foods, the symbolism, all were completely different -- all recognizably Christian, not Jewish. It is just very strange for me as a Jew to see that and to hear it called a seder. It would be like someone taking a socialist political system and renaming it a democracy. The name is not accurate.[/quote]

Options

	Disable HTML in this message
	Disable BB Code in this message
	Disable smilies in this message

Review message

Search Recent Topics Hottest Topics