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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]The US and EU will not abandon Israel, OP.

Retreating from this war does not constitute and abandonment of Israel. They will still have weapons deals with the West, and they will still occupy Lebanon. Sadly.

However, the image of Israel as the victim in the Middle East is shattered for this generation.

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lol the EU only goes along with the US on Israel. No NATO and 25% tariffs will allow the EU to go their own way. They will put sanctions on Israel. [/quote]

PP you replied to. I don't think so. I am French, and we deal with the legacy of WWII and the Holocaust in a way Americans cannot understand. I don't think the EU will abandon Israel anytime soon. [/quote]

How old are you? If you're over 30, you can tell yourself that. But younger people see Israel for the terrorist state it is. [/quote]

DP.  "Younger people" - presumably, like you - are just showing your profound ignorance.  You really, really want to forget the Holocaust ever existed.  I imagine you like to tell yourself it actually didn't happen, amirite?[/quote]

No- you are wrong, younger people and history buffs realize that the scope of the holocaust is much larger than 6 million, it ws 12-14 million who died in the camps.  the only people who want people to forget are  the Israelis, they certainly dont want anyone to remember that there were other victims of teh Nazi brutality or that there were colored victims of teh allies who were just caught up in freedom fighting from brutal colonization and couldn't care less about any European power- they were ALL BAD.  Its teh Isrealis  who dont want anyone to learn anything from the war-- they want everyone to forget about the Geneva convention.  to forget about the horror people faced upto and tried to prevent from happening again by their rejection of all the norms of warfare that were established as a reaction to the horrors of the world wars as well as the systematic undermining of institutions that were created to limit conflict like Nato and the UN b/c they constrain plans for Greater Isreal.  so no, its the Isrealis who want people to forget the horrors or to accept that humanity is incapable of learning of learning from history.  of the few survivors left- many are incredibly vocal against this current regime & speak out against what is happening, how many support it??? I can think of one in support and 5 against off the top of my head.  [/quote]

So in your racist worldview, Jews are centering themselves in the holocaust. You want Israel dismantled, you want Jordan dismantled, you want Lebanon dismantled, you want Syria dismantled, presumably you also want Egypt dismantled? India dismantled as they are all countries formed post-WWII with state religions. I am not sure what GenZ-oodles for brains thinks will fill the power vacuum or how installing  American-style secular governments would work (that would seem to be colonialism itself- which I thought you were against?) - those older than you remember Yugoslavia (you don't read, otherwise we would tell you to look it up). There has always been racism against Jews on the far left and on the far right - what your generation is doing is not new. Much to criticize in Netayahu's government - but if he is a genocidal maniac - so is Obama. So is the MPD, for that matter.  And so is every other European, Middle Eastern, or African leader from time immemorial. Even with highest estimates available, roughly 50,000 civilians were killed in Gaza. That is a much lower civilian casulaty rate of any 21th century war involving urban warfare. 70k protestors were murdered in Iran - and you and your friends held parties to celebrate. 2.5 Sudanese civilians were murdered - but you and your friends couldn't care less. Because that's the thorny truth of this all. If Palestinians are indigenous, so are Jews. If Jews are white settler-colonialists, so are Palestinians. And I say this to right-wing Israelis as well. Palestinians deserve self-determination. Jews deserve self-determination. Kurds deserve self-determination. Alwaites deserve self-determination. That is true "liberation" for everyone in the region. And the hyper-focus on Israel is because of racism against Jews, and colorism that favors white victims like Palestinians (or Ukrainians for that matter). So, abandon Israel - and embrace Iran. It's not going to help you get a job or afford housing or settle any of your copious domestic grievances. History tells us that when racism against Jews reaches a fever point - other bad things tend to happen. Ignore it at your peril - and your hate will just create more Zionists. Which seems to be the opposite of what you want. [/quote]

India, Egypt, Iraq/Syria, Persia and China are the oldest civilizations on the planet.  Pretending that some of those were created post WW2 is such utter bullcrap and blatant spin that it makes everything you say suspect.[/quote] Again, an old-school encyclopedia would be your friend, Z-bot. Judea is one of the oldest civilization. Iraq and Syria are not civilizations. Persia is indeed an old civilization - that was settler-colonialized by Islamicists. Ditto Kurdistan. Ditto Chaldeans. But as nation states, Egypt, Syria, Jordan, India are rougly the same age as Israel. [/quote]
Egypt is far older than Israel. Jacob’s sons all moved to Egypt when there was no country of Israel. They and their multiple generations of descendants were slaves in Egypt before Moses’ deliverance. And then Jews walked around in the desert for another forty years before finding a landing pad. Moses who predated the first king of Israel, Saul, lived approximately 1500BC. Whereas Saul was approximately 1050BC. So no, Egypt and Israel are not the same in age. Iraq is former Babylon. [/quote]

this is a joke, right?   We are basing real world decisions and behavior on an ancient book of myths? I'm so tired of people acting like we should all just accept this as fact...that the "bible" is a history book with enough validity to base our lives on. And by the way...where has that gotten the damn world?  
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DP. 
FWIW, I believe there is a lot of true history in the bible, but also believe that it doesn’t effing matter who had what land thousands of years ago and we should not be fighting wars or killing innocent people with this idea that the land “belongs” to the Jews.
And as a Christian I believe in the New Covenant; in redemption through Jesus Christ, which replaces the Old Covenant. So there are no “chosen people”. All people everywhere are God’s chosen people. [/quote]

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