Reply to Posting as someone with direct family ties to Venezuela.

Forum Index » Political Discussion

Reply to "Posting as someone with direct family ties to Venezuela."

Subject:

Emoticons





More smilies

Text Color: Font: Close Marks

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]My wife is Venezuelan. She desperately wants to be able to go back someday—to visit safely, to see family, to recognize her own country again. Right now, that’s not possible. Much of her family is current or former military, and they want exactly what civilians want: freedom from an oppressive regime that destroyed their country from the inside.

She does not like Trump. Let’s get that out of the way. But let’s also stop pretending Venezuela is a Democrat vs. Republican issue. It’s not.

Under Maduro, people were run over by armored vehicles. Protesters were shot. Elections were a farce. The country became a narco-state while ordinary people starved or fled. That reality didn’t change depending on who was in the White House.

And for those suddenly clutching pearls about U.S. involvement—Biden continued dealings with Venezuelan oil despite repeated warnings from human-rights organizations. So please spare us the selective outrage.

China and Iran didn’t embed themselves in Venezuela out of goodwill. They wanted oil, minerals, leverage. Everyone knows this. Acting shocked now is disingenuous.

Here’s what’s missing from most of these takes: the majority of Venezuelans want the regime gone, even if that comes with hard compromises. They understand the cost because they’ve already paid it.

This isn’t about loving Trump.
It’s about wanting Venezuela back.[/quote]

Thanks for your post, OP.  Yes - it seems that nearly all of those protesting the arrest of Maduro are NOT from Venezuela, have no ties to Venezuela, and know nothing of the horrible conditions in which the Venezuelan people have been forced to live.

This is good for Venezuela, good for the US, and good for the whole region.  
Venezuela deserves to return to the beautiful, free country it once was.  That is not possible under Maduro.  [/quote]

You are on a fool if you think this was about anything but Venezuela!  Trump could care less about the US or Venezuela.  This was good for Trump's ego, his political priorities and wallet.  Venezuela will return to a hot mess of a leaderless country - cause if you think Maria Noble Prize winner gets to lead it I have some ice to sell you - Trump needs someone he can push around to "be in control" but of course it's Trump that heads up that country now.  Venezuela may be rid of Maduro but all that means is they have US running it, no longer a sovereign independent country of their own. You bet that anything financially viable will be robbed from Venezuela.

I understand why everyone from that country is happy but they are too emotional to see the big pic.  I have expectations that a non Venezuelan is a bit more clear headed?

Give them a month or so and they will hate the US even more than all the other countries in the world...[/quote]

I am bookmarking this so I can come back and say I told you so. 
You are clueless and so biased that you cannot see the reality here. 
It will take time, but Venezuela will return to a vibrant, free nation in the not too distant future.  They will have FAIR and FREE elections and choose someone who will lead them on a path to prosperity.  
Maduro is responsible for the deaths of Americans and Venezuelan citizens.  His reign has caused over 7 million Venezuelans to flee their country - many coming to the US.  So, yes - he has had a direct impact on our country.  He sold diplomatic passports to drug lords so they could import drugs with very little accountability.  
It was just a couple years ago that DEMOCRAT politicians were calling for the ouster of Maduro.  But, since it was Trump that got it done, they are complaining.  So damned predictable.  [/quote]
Not going to happen. I’ll be back to say I told you so. Name one thing Trump has accomplished successfully. Name one country where US meddling has resulted in betterment for the citizens.[/quote]

DP. Panama seems like an obvious example.[/quote]

Might want to talk to the people of Panama. They hate the US. Also Panama was taken from Columbia so we could build the canal and we just took that land with no compensation. [/quote]

Non responsive.

Panama’s citizens are objectively better off than they were before US deposed Noriega.

Not saying that will happen in Venezuela, but it is clearly a case where US intervention produced an objectively positive outcome.

Could go either way, but it’s silly to say “intervention never works”. Sometimes it does.[/quote]

I had to do a little digging because I couldn’t remember the details of the US invasion of Panama and their subsequent ouster of Noriega. It’s only been a few days, but already there are some differences in how the current administration is handling the situation in Venezuela and the way the Noriega situation was handled.

It turns out that the US immediately installed the opposition leader who had won the election annulled by Noriega and worked to establish democracy. In contrast, the Trump administration has allowed Maduro’s deputy to take charge and Trump has practically disavowed opposition leader Machado and not mentioned the politician who actually won the election Maduro claimed he won. In addition, Trump keeps talking about oil and saying that the US will run Venezuela. There doesn’t seem to be any clear plan to restore democracy the way there was with the Panama example.

Historical background on Panama:

After Manuel Noriega's arrest in January 1990 (following the US invasion in December 1989), the United States did not directly govern or "run" Panama. Instead, Guillermo Endara, the opposition leader who had won the annulled May 1989 election, was sworn in as president on December 20, 1989 (at a US military base during the invasion). He led a civilian government until 1994.

US forces provided security, dissolved Noriega's Panama Defense Forces, and supported reconstruction (e.g., via Operation Promote Liberty), but sovereignty was transferred to the elected Panamanian government, not retained as a US administration or occupation. 
[/quote]

During WW2 the US established civil rules of the Philippines within three days of landing. October 20, 1944 MacArthur wades ashore at Leyte, famously declaring, "I have returned!" while the battle for the Philippines was still ongoing.
October 23, 1944 MacArthur with President Osmeña by his side announces the restoration of Philippine civil government in Tacloban, the temporary capital. The Philippines fought along side the US.

Today republicans would have kept on Jose Laurel. The collaborator who was the Japanese puppet. [/quote]

Options

	Disable HTML in this message
	Disable BB Code in this message
	Disable smilies in this message

Review message

Search Recent Topics Hottest Topics