Reply to Benefits of taking Algebra 1 in 6th grade

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Great!  People who don't want math acceleration can opt out, and those who want it can have it available.  Everyone should choose what they think works best for their child.

Anyone who truly believes that math acceleration confers no benefit shouldn't be bothered by other kids who do accelerate.  [/quote]

Sounds about right.

But if you go on a public forum claiming it’s beneficial for admissions at top colleges, don’t be surprised if you get some pushback.[/quote]
Where would the advanced students go if not to top colleges? Of course not all, but a good number get offers from best colleges. [/quote]

If 700 kids take Algebra in 6 in one district alone, it’s not possible that half of it will make it to top colleges. Probably not even 10%.

Colleges want to see a rigorous coursework and evidence the student can handle the classes for intended major. A kid entering high school at geometry, getting A, and [b]completing AP calculus BC with 5, [/b]will check the most rigorous mark, and there’s no reason to believe they can’t handle more advanced college classes.

Taking more math classes won’t change that, it just means the kid was [b]set on that path from elementary school because the parents put in the effort[/b]. Look up details in Harvard vs. Fair Admissions, at no point the DE math came out as a factor.

It’s going to be down to other things first and DE math has a negligible impact.[/quote]

Colleges won't know that when they need to admit.  They'll at most see the grades for the first quarter of Calc BC, and they won't have an AP score in the application packet for a kid taking BC in 12th.  Kids who take BC in 11th will have both a full course grade and the AP score available in their application packet.

For the second bolded point, that depends entirely on the school district.  In FCPS and LCPS, 7th grade Algebra has very little to do with parental effort and a lot more to do with natural math aptitude.  The bar is not high, and many kids clear the bar with nothing more than the math taught in their schools.  [/quote]

If a student enters high school at precalculus, it is expected they’ll keep taking math over the years, and that implies math offered at high school or outside, and will include Calculus, Statistics, and others like Multivariable.

If a student enters high school at geometry, taking a regular progression of one math class per year they’ll end up at Calculus in senior year. While AP exam is not available, grades in first semester are.

Both are taking full advantage of what’s [b]available to them in high school[/b], colleges won’t be looking at what was done in middle school. It’s not expected students use their summers to advance in math.

One caveat is that students advanced in math often do other activities that make them better applicants, but that a classic example of correlation without causation.

People are so invested in believing their kid has a leg up, there’s nothing to convince them otherwise.

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If your high school offers through multivariable calculus and your student enters high school in geometry and takes up through calc AB…no, they aren’t taking advantage of what is available to them. They are taking what’s appropriate for them, but that’s different from what’s available [/quote]

Ok, somehow you know better than colleges themselves, but haven’t provided anything to substantiate your deeply held belief:

Here is what MIT says about the coursework in high school:

“To be clear, [b]we do not expect students do anything above and beyond what is required to demonstrate their readiness for the MIT education.[/b] However, we also know that many of our applicants have interests, aptitudes, and curiosities that may carry themselves beyond what is offered at their local high school, and the resources here may help you explore those further if you wish.⁠”

Readiness is detailed in this link, Calculus being highest level of math that’s expected:
https://mitadmissions.org/apply/prepare/foundations/

You’re so enamored of the idea that your kid has a leg up from taking algebra in 6th grade that there’s nothing that could change your mind about it.

If your interest in math is leading to taking dual enrollment classes, that’s great. If your thing is being part of math club and tutor other students, doing research, or whatever floats your boat, that’s equally good. You won’t be dinged because you “only” took Calculus.
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Please realize “readiness” for applicants is the minimum to apply.  If you like at who is actually admitted and attends, the vast majority have had math beyond calc BC[/quote]

[b]If they took Statistics they'd understand the difference between correlation and causation. 
[/b]
MIT smirks at the "rigor" of a high school / dual Enrollment Multivariable Calc / Linear Algebra class. That's not what impresses them.
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+1[/quote]

What are you talking about? It isn’t what impresses them per se, but the majority of applicants getting accepted are going to have post BC calc math (among other impressive things).  [/quote]

That’s likely true for math majors, not sure you can generalize to all admits.

If you read what MIT says about post BC Calculus it’s clear those classes don’t carry as much weight as APs in Physics and Chemistry.

The rigor in DE varies widely, just from my kid taking Multivariable at the local community college, it’s easy to get an A without mastery and they don’t even cover the entire material. Colleges know this very well, yes, it adds something, but it won’t be the determining factor. And it’s not required, someone getting a 5 in Calculus BC would have absolutely no problem acing the community college Multivariable, so it’s not really a significant differentiator.

Since the acceleration occurs mostly in middle school, it says very little about talent and ability and more about socioeconomic status, it’s mostly parents buying enrichment and pushing for higher math placement. Again colleges know this, it’s not a secret to anyone, and it’s not the back door to top colleges as some claim.[/quote]
The colleges know your socioeconomic status.  Obviously, they’ll treat FGLI kids differently from UMC ones.   If you’re a UMC kid, and most of the top kids from your school are in multivariable, you’ll look like a kid who is less motivated or less intelligent than your peer group.  [/quote]

You won’t look less motivated and less intelligent because your parents weren’t pushy enough to place you in Algebra in 6th grade. So much cope and wishful thinking from tiger parents.

You can still do Algebra in 7th and have no dual enrollment math [b]if the school enforces Calculus AB then BC sequence[/b] or the student chooses to take AP Statistics in senior year. It’s not going to be looked down at.
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Easy fix: take the AP AB exam as external student, then they have to admit you to BC directly.[/quote] No they don't. And good luck finding a spot [/quote]
They do if the class is AP/DE and the participating college through which the class is offered accepts AP credit for Calc AB.[/quote]
AP, which is what you were talking about, is not offered through a college.

Suppose the school says they won't offer high school credit for an AB score. What would your next steps be?[/quote]
We don't need or want high school credit for AB. There's just not enough room in the schedule for AB given all the other AP courses DC will have to take in their sophomore year. Plus there needs to be room for fun classes like band/orchestra, foreign languages, and perhaps another elective like Robotics.

We just insist on being placed into the DE/AP Calculus BC course since we meet the prerequisites as posed by the college undersigning the DE portion.
Again, the courses are AP/DE (combined), not just AP. Students receive both DE credit and can take the AP exam.
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Even if you meet the college's prerequisites, the high school can still refuse to let you skip into a DE course by refusing to issue high school credit for any college classes taken without their permission.

Also, as others have said, AP courses are not DE courses. Community colleges do not get their curriculum approved by the college board which is what is required to call a class and AP class.

Just curious, when would you have your child take the AB exam independently? The same year they're enrolled in precalc?[/quote]
Yep. This year. I pointed him at Khan's [url=https://www.khanacademy.org/math/ap-calculus-ab]AP Calculus AB[/url] material and he's completed in a few weeks. That's when we both realized that sitting for an entire year through school-level Calc AB would be cruel and unusual punishment. One year for BC would more appropriate, if for nothing else getting more practice.

In our district, it's odd. At the elementary level, they are completely anti-gifted. At the middle school level, they are gifted-friendly: kids can test into Algebra I/H in 6th, etc.  At the high school level, they revert back to being anti-gifted: for instance, they don't have a deeper Precalculus BC style course the way some FCPS schools have, and in fact they even allow students who have taken only Algebra 2 non-Honors into AP Precalculus, and they attempt to stretch the Calculus/BC curriculum over 2 years by trying to enforce AB as a prerequisite. So, enrichment remains needed; which is another reason we don't want DC to having to commit to a full year of Calculus AB in school if we can avoid it.

To clarify your confusion about "community colleges getting their curriculum approved by the college board" - I've explained it in another post. It's not the community college. The HS teacher submits their courses to the college board for an audit, so that it becomes an AP course. Similarly and simultaneously, they are working with the community college and get approval from them for the dual-enrollment listing of the course because it matches the CC's syllabus. I actually checked both myself because I wanted to convince the teacher to expand it a little bit; but in AP Precalculus with unit 4 being optional (and very little additional material coming from the CC syllabus) it's an uphill battle. As I mentioned, they also have non-Honors Algebra 2 students in the class so they're spending time reviewing material from Alg 2/H. Basically, they entire course is focused on covering the minimal number of material so that kids get a 5 on the AP Precalc exam (which is even easier than the AB exam). But that's a different topic.
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