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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]It's SO weird to me that people in poverty are expected to hold themselves to a high standard when it comes to food choices, but nobody freaks out when rich people to eat the Takis and Mountain Dew.

America has this weird belief that people in poverty, single moms, BIPOC are all supposed to hold themselves to a higher standard than the average middle class white dude. [/quote]

I don't think they have to hold themselves to a higher standard. They just also have a choice to eat healthy or not - same as anyone else. They aren't eating unhealthy due to circumstance but by choice.[/quote]

There are circumstances where it’s really hard to make good choices. But if we want people to make better choices, we need to be realistic about why it’s hard for them, and lack of access to healthy options is not high on the list. [/quote]

So it’s not a higher standard at all but an acknowledgment they can’t even meet the minimum standard.[/quote]

I don’t know that this is a particularly  helpful way of thinking about it? It would be good if even people who are not particularly good at functioning could live happy, healthy, and fulfilling lives. At the moment, a lot of them can’t. Half this thread is people saying “oh it’s just because their material circumstances are so bad” and that’s false, but saying “too bad, sucks to suck” is also lousy. [/quote]

But let’s stop saying they are being held to a higher standard. They clearly are not. They are functioning at an extremely low standard and many are coming up with any and every excuse imaginable to explain it, no matter how absurd. Like they live in dirt hovels with no running water, electricity, or a pot to pee in. That’s just not true in the US.[/quote]

Oh agreed. That wasn’t me! And to the later commenter who talked about tent cities — yeah, drug addiction is a terrible thing. But let’s be real, in America you have to be severely mentally ill or intensely abusing substances to wind up in a “no really it is literally impossible to cook healthy food” situation. I’m not denying that it’s harder, even much harder, if you’re poor — pretty much [b]everything is harder if you’re poor! But if you refuse to recognize that people are actively making bad choices, whether because they’re focusing on the now or they don’t understand the long term consequences or they simply can’t get their acts together,[/b] you’re not going to be able to ameliorate anything. And frankly it’s not any nicer to them. [/quote]

It's so nice when rich people empathize 'I know it's harder! But you just don't understand the CONSEQUENCES like I, as an educated person, do! You just have to try harder!" *sips on their Chardonnay*[/quote]

I am literally arguing that telling people to try harder is stupid, because people who *can* do better will. Manifestly there are a lot of people who can’t. But it’s not due to food deserts and tent cities. [/quote]

DP, but c’mon. How many kids of parents on this board have had their whole lives more or less engineered for them so they don’t have to do better - they’re already starting better?

Sure, there are scholarships and bursaries for the tiny fraction of disadvantaged kids who are actually able to set themselves about. The bulk of post secondary education is for those who can pay. So yeah, unless you can be the 0.1 % who are eligible for specific financial awards, that money is going to the kids who had tutors and activities and all kinds of advantages that allow them to shine already- and for parents that probably could pay.

This is not about pledging to the right sorority. It’s about many things not being attainable at all. [/quote]

Pp you’re replying to. You’re right, a lot of things are not realistically attainable. But look a little lower than the DCUM UMC lifestyle and think, like, a plumber or an xray tech — that’s very attainable for pretty much anyone who can show up on time and work. And yet a lot of people can’t manage to get or keep jobs like that.

Honestly, I think the greatest advantage of the children of the kind of people who post on these boards is just that they’re the offspring of the kinds of people who post on these boards — conscientious, organized, driven. (Neurotic!) And a lot of that is super heritable. They’d probably turn out fine regardless. It would be nice if our society also worked for people who were none of those things. [/quote]

Do you think that there is no tuition or reduced pay to become a plumber or x-ray tech? These are skilled trades / apprenticeships. That there isn’t a need for these students to
Pay for shelter and food during their education, even if it’s a year or two? A plumber needs to buy their own tool kit.  I mean, how many parents here, who are paying for tuition and housing already, expect their post secondary student to also hold a job? Where do you think this magical tuition is coming from, plus no actual income during that time period? [/quote]

You can become an x ray tech with a two year degree from a community college. I paid for a year of community college as a high school senior working as a waitress. A community college education is attainable for most people. Then I bartended through the rest of my degree. It was not easy and some semesters I only took a few classes so it took longer than 4 years but I did it. [/quote]

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