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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]My 13:year old saw the thread title and said, Haven't these people heard of the rule of law? We learned about it in school.  No, the president isn't above the law.  Of course not.[/quote]

Did you explain to your 13 year old that the constitution specified impeachment for High Crimes and Misdemeanors and that President Trump was impeached and not convicted?  [/quote]

DP and then her 13 year might reply but what if a president resigns before impeachment and conviction take place, that means he's above the law if he commits High Crimes and Misdemeanors?[/quote]

Maybe.  But that isn’t what happened.  Trump WAS impeached and was found not guilty.  That is the situation.  [/quote]

He wasn't found "not guilty" - a majority of senators voted to disbar Trump from running again, [b]but not the 60 needed to prevent it outright.[/b] More than 10 said they would not vote against Trump because he was out of office, so voting for removal was unnecessary and further, that the DOJ would have jursidiction.

So now we have the DOJ arguing in court and team trump citing the lack of removal by the Senate as the get out of jail free card...IOW playing both sides.[/quote]

Actually the threshold is 67 votes in the senate to convict, which is impossibly high.  Trump could easily come up with any BS excuse for any crime whatsoever and get 34 Republican senators to cover for him.[/quote]
If impeachment plus conviction is the *only* way to hold a president accountable, there are multiple loopholes:
A president could commit a crime then immediately resign.
A president could commit a crime on January 19, just before their term ends.
A president could commit a crime that is not discovered until they are no longer president.
A president could commit a crime that, by its very nature, prevents impeachment from happening. Use your imagination.

If impeachment is the only exception to presidential immunity then there must be a way to impeach a former president. Since there's not, if the court agrees with Trump they're saying that presidents are monarchs. Trump may not realize he's going to lose this argument, but his lawyers certainly do.[/quote]

What happens after a president is convicted of impeachment?  It’s my understanding that he would lose the presidency and just become a private citizen and that’s it.  Is that correct?  Or does an impeachment conviction also come with a jail sentence?[/quote]

It's never happened, but I think Trump's lawyers are arguing that an impeachment then allows for subsequent criminal prosecution? I don't see how they get that from the Constitution, but I don't see how they get most of their argument.  [/quote]

The Federalist Papers are also considered founding documents and are often referred to when it comes to constitutional questions. There you find: "The President of the United States would be liable to be impeached, tried, and, upon conviction of treason, bribery, or other high crimes or misdemeanors, removed from office; and would afterwards be liable to prosecution and punishment in the ordinary course of law. " So yes, definitely subject to prosecution if impeached. No question there at all. [/quote]

FWIW I don’t think the founders envisioned our modern party system—where party loyalty cuts across all three branches —when they designed the infrastructure of our government.  Definitely understandable, since democracy was so new at the time.  They probably assumed senators would be loyal to the Senate and to the legislative branch, which would provide a real check on the president.  It may have been true then, but it is most definitely no longer the case.  Consequently, an impeachment conviction, which requires 67 senate votes, is now an impossibly high standard to meet.  Given our 2-party system, it will never ever happen.[/quote]

The Whig party was founded in 1678 and the Tories in 1679. The Founders were well aware of political parties. [/quote]

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