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This is important to remember: transferring into IB (supposedly) requires you to take full IB. No picky-choosey like kids zoned for WL.  This is a policy, IMO, APS needs to change.[/quote]

NP whose Yorktown-zoned child wants to apply for IB next year.  How would you change it?  Either let the YT/Wakefield kids stay even if they don't do full IB, or make it so W-L kids can't dabble in IB, they either do it or not?[/quote]

I would change it so they either do it or don't, same as everyone, since it's a program within a school.  Letting everyone dabble in it, just defeats the purpose.  [b] But who will make this change?[/quote]

Letting people "dabble" actually helps the program because they can offer a wider range of IB electives. If they limited access to only diploma students they would have electives with only a few students signing up and then they wouldn't offer them. [/quote]

I believe that due to the extremely large number of high school students in this county, and the popularity of the IB program, they would easily fill, if they asked students to fully commit (perhaps at the latest by the start of grade 10) and decide to be "in or out".[/quote]

I agree. If IB were established as its own option program, the typical high-pressure-expectations Arlington parents would be all over it like they are HBW. It would become an elite option school. But on second thought as I write this, the major obstacle to that happening would be the lack of extracurriculars. Parents expect their kids to be able to do and have it all. Separating IB from WL per se would disconnect their students from WL athletics. That's one of the problems Arlington Tech has now - students want to do activities AT doesn't offer (band) and it's too much of a hassle to go back to the home school for sports.[/quote]

I don’t think APS is too keen on creating elite option schools. HBW became one due to its small size, but that wasn’t on purpose. Arlington Tech was purposefully not designed as an elite STEM school with admissions testing. A small elite IB option school would likely create division between the “dregs of humanity” at the neighborhood schools and the highly motivated academic stars at the elite IB option school. Also, would a small IB option school be able to offer the same number of IB electives? [/quote]

Don't know and don't care. So what if the # of electives goes down? They still have their IB program and diploma. Option programs are choices and choices just might mean "choosing" to do without something else. [/quote]

There's no point in creating this elite school if it doesn't attract a sizable number if kids away from the more crowded schools.

I think some PPs here overestimate the interest in the IB diploma. It is A LOT of work and the number of kids who actually complete the diploma isn't actually that large. [/quote]

I'm not advocating for an IB program. I'm just saying that if it's going to be offered, it should be its own, actual IB program. If there isn't enough interest to sustain one, don't establish one; or try and if it doesn't draw enough, then eliminate it. Considering there are only approximately 60 IB diplomas issued in a given year, I think the program should be on "table 1" for budget cuts. Thousands of students across the country manage to get in and graduate from fine universities without an IB diploma and even without a single IB class. [b]The way IB is offered in APS is (1) inequitable and (2) not consistent with the actual IB program/curriculum.[/b][/quote]

There’s no requirement for schools to offer the IB Middle Years Programme to become an IB school. W-L has maintained one of the region’s most successful high school IB programs for 25 years. The schools new addition is allowing all eligible applicants an IB spot at W-L, and perhaps the W-L boundary should further shrink as needed to allow for continued access to all eligible students. Would it be equitable for IB to become an elite option program within W-L like Richard Montgomery HS in Rockville, closed to in-bounds W-L students? I don’t know.

[b]But for now the W-L addition is meeting the needs of both IB and in-bounds neighborhood kids[/b]. In 5 years if enrollment continues upward in the south of the county unabated, then IB, HB, and other option programs might be up for debate. But as of now, no one is calling for changes.

[/quote]

[b]This is the problem!  It is serving "in-bounds neighborhood kids."[/b] IB should absolutely not become "an elite program" within WL that's open only to WL students. That's the whole point I've been trying to make. I don't care where they house the program. If they're going to offer it, it should be a full-time IB program consisting only of full-time IB students from across the county. It should NOT be open to the general WL populace (ie "serve in-bounds neighborhood kids") to take a few classes from in order to enhance their college applications - unless any high school student in any of the other high schools have that same access.  My initial use of "elite" was not meant to describe the program, but to suggest how it would be viewed by Arlington parents always seeking the best for their genius children....like how people describe HBW as an "elite" program because it's small and highly coveted.[/quote]

I don't think this is a problem.  At least, unlike HB, if you really want your kid to go there (but you don't want them to do the full diploma or you don't get in through the lottery), you can move in bounds.

But I don't see many people actually complaining about this.  I think this is a made up "issue."[/quote]

I agree. It’s not really an issue apart from a few people on this forum claiming it’s not fair and that Yorktown should have better stats than W-L etc. Moreover maybe it’s good that some of the most disadvantaged kids in the metro area (who represent a large number of in-bounds W-L students) are exposed to highly motivated students on a daily basis at school, and that they can aspire to take on challenging coursework as they are able. That’s actually an argument for equity right there. [/quote]

Wow, way to justify your extra benefits at W-L, blame the people who don't have it and call them whiners. Well done!!![/quote]

If you care that much about your kids taking IB classes then make sure they take the prerequisites and apply.  Virtually everyone gets off the waitlist and now with the additional 600 seats it’s even more likely. No one is forced to transfer back to their zoned HS if they don’t do full IB as long as they take a bare minimum of IB classes.  [/quote]

Really not seeing the issue here, unless a kid only wants to take just 1-2 IB classes?[/quote]
So why is it ok for a WL-zoned student to just take [b]1-2 IB classes[/b], but everyone else has to have the intention of a full IB diploma? That's the ISSUE. [/quote]

OMG, days and pages worth of griping and grudges over WL zoned students taking 1-2 IB classes?  That is what you're so upset about???

AP sciences classes at Yorktown are two periods long, while they are only one period long at WL, so Yorktown students have twice as long to be taught the same material that WL kids have, all to take [b]the same exact tes[/b][b]t.[/b]  That looks like a huge advantage to me, a parent whose DS got a C in AP Physics at WL and a 2 on the test.  But I don't see any WL parents complaining that it's not fair.

Time to move along and find something a bit more important to fight for.  
[/quote]

In turn, AP classes taking 2 periods takes away the opportunity to take other electives. Give and take.
WL doesn't complain because they have everything available and can tailor their program they way they choose.  YHS and WHS students don't have a choice, and have fewer opportunities for choices when a science AP class (not all AP classes take 2 periods, btw) requires two periods.  Students who choose - and are fortunate enough to get into - a CTE class at the Career Center also lose a period they could take another elective. Choices. Gain something, give up something. The "whiny" issue is that WL students don't have to "choose" or sacrifice as much. And, as pointed out by an earlier poster, it's typically not an issue for WL parents. I personally don't care about IB per se. I think our regular and AP classes should be doing a far better job developing writing skills in particular. Nevertheless, I do firmly believe in "equal opportunity" and "equal access" or "equal lack of access."

I also believe that if APS is going to incur the expense of a program, it should be implemented in a way true to the program. An earlier commenter stated that a middle years IB program isn't required for the secondary program. Not sure what point in defense of the WL IB program that was intended to make. Nobody claimed it was necessary. It is, however, odd and debatably unfair that students who have participated in the early and middle years don't automatically have the option to continue in high school. There shouldn't be a 2-year gap (9th and 10th grades) in the program to begin with. Montessori requires the previous Montessori experience.  Immersion requires previous immersion or demonstrated fluency of sufficient level to jump in later. The fact IB doesn't need that background says something about the lack of significant differentiation/benefits of the program.

BTW, 2 periods for the AP science classes isn't the big advantage you think it is.[/quote]

NP and bystander here with no dog in fight.  But clarification that Montessori no longer requires prior Montessori experience. We sure do wish we could at upper levels, because adding inexperienced students is highly disruptive when other classmates have been steeped in it for years. Somehow, Immersion is still special in this county in that they get to test-out inexperienced applicants. They actually get to blockade inexperienced newcomers. (They also don't charge tuition, nor try to favor economically disadvantaged applicants - meaning upper middle class get disproportionate share of slots.) [/quote]

Hmm. I'll take your word for it about prior Montessori experience for students entering somewhere along the mid-point. But I don't think I'm in sync with your suggested characterization of the immersion program.

First, you need to have a sufficient level of proficiency in the languages in order to jump-in mid-way somewhere like 3rd grade or 9th grade, for example.

Second, no option program - including Montessori - within APS charges tuition except for preschool. Your "don't charge tuition" statement regarding immersion is misleading.

Third, the 50/50 immersion model (which APS has and still follows, even though some parents are advocating to ditch it) is both an instructional philosophy as well as a way to ensure access by disadvantaged families (since economic status and demographics have a high correlation here). Also, APS program admissions policies and boundary policies do not mandate or actually in practice incorporate any demographic criteria - again despite much advocacy that they do so. Take a look at the FRL% stats for the Montessori and the two elementary immersion programs and then convince me Montessori is the superior benefactor for the poor.[/quote]

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