Reply to So what exactly is the problem with C-Sections?

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]The article noted many things - you only picked the parts that you like.  But thanks for telling me what I believe.

It seemed you missed a very simple message of the essay: the doctor's bag is getting lighter. It used to be full of all kinds of tricks and tools, including the scalpel.  Now, it's just the scalpel.  Not because they believe the other tools won't work; it's because they don't know how to use them. They simply never learned. And that's why women with any deviations from the "uncomplicated vaginal birth" pathway find themselves with fewer options.  Not because physicians believe these options aren't suitable, but mostly because they don't know how to use them.   It's a very simplified picture, for sure, with lots of gray and nuanced parts, but that's the direction of travel.  We should be able to acknowledge this as reality.[/quote]

DP. Sure, but what is the point.of this acknowledgement if countering this, or as PP so eloquently said, "preserving artisanship," comes at such a high price to laboring mother's? I don't see the point of any acknowledgement when it would be unethical to take steps to preserve that artisanship. [/quote]

On the contrary.  It would be highly ethical to take steps to preserve these skills because they do work, and educate physicians on how to practice them safely, and when to progress to a C-section.  At its most reduced, this line of thinking says: unless a vaginal birth is progressing perfectly, do a C-section.  Don't learn to manage complications in any other way.  At the tiniest sign of any variation, get the operating room ready.  Not because you think a C-section is the best way to manage these complications, but because, simply, you don't know any other way. Truly, when all you have is a hammer...[/quote]

So you want to return to the days when poorer women of color in labor were used as training grounds for inexperienced delivering doctors. You know that is how it used to work, don’t you? How and where do you think all those physicians got their training before they were experienced enough to run their own private practices? How can you remotely think that is an ethical model?[/quote]

This is kind of true now though. Look at the rate of c-section among non-white mothers and look at the mortality rates. I don’t think this is an argument in either direction I would just point out they poorer women of color in labor are absolutely being exploited as a training grounds now, it’s just surgical training. [/quote]

Where do you think Norwegian surgeons train? You think they import secret pools of nonwhite women to train on?

The bigger issue to think of is our particular intolerance for any imperfect outcomes in medicine. It's almost as if we expect there to be no learning curve for physicians; we want them to hatch with a perfect set of skills.  Yet every dentist will one day pull his or her first tooth, and her 100th extraction will be much better than her 1st.  You think surgeons hatch fully trained?  Someone, somewhere is doing their first C-section as we speak. Who are they supposed to train on? Are they not supposed to train?

That's a different discussion, though. [/quote]

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