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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote]Harvard can have sports teams without preferring athletes in the admissions process. they might suck more than they do now, but they suck pretty hard now. [/quote]

Harvard wants athletes for more that just their athletic ability. Outstanding athletes tend to also possess the qualities that outstanding leaders have. They work well with others, know how to work hard, they persevere in the face of loss and disappointment. Many have the ability to inspire and encourage others to do well. They are the kind of people who frequently go on to be leaders in government and business.

Harvard is in the business of producing leaders in society, not only academics. Athletes bring abilities to the table that Harvard likes to see in their students. I realize a lot of people would like to see schools like Harvard be about the academics and nothing but the academics, but that just isn’t the case. Harvard sees the need for people who can be leaders in the world and that is what they aim to turn out. 
[/quote]

Wow - you really buy into the halo around athletes, don't you?

These are not 'outstanding athletes'.  They're not Olympians, they don't turn professional, and they're rarely in the elite of their own birth year for their sport.

What are they?  Mostly sub-par students who absent their athletic ability would never make it to the Harvard campus.  [/quote]

No halo, but I do recognize the leadership abilities that many athletes possess. And Harvard recognizes these attributes, as do many of their peer institutions.

And outstanding doesn’t necessarily mean Olympic or professional level. Most of the outstanding students at Ivies are not going to win Nobel prizes, or any academic prizes for that matter, but they are still outstanding students.

And the athletes at Ivies are not “sub-par” students. A recent Ivy League rower came forward and “admitted” that he was recruited with “only” a 1450 SAT score. No one considers 1450 a sub-par score. 
[/quote]

look, maybe sub-par means something different to you, but last year at Harvard, for accepted students who took the SAT, the [b]25th percentile score was 1480[/b]. The 75th percentile score was 1600, and the average score was 1540.

Looks pretty sub-par to me.[/quote]

I was using sub-par to mean in general society. Among all SAT takers, 1450 is about 96th percentile, so not considered a sub-par score. Someone who gets a 1450, particularly if it is on only one try, is a pretty darn smart person.

[b]How many of the kids with 1540s have another, non-academic, skill that is the equivalent of being able to compete on a Division I team? How many have the leadership abilities that many athletes have? How many have a non-academic skill that puts them in the 96th percentile for that skill?[/b]

The ability to score that highly on the SAT and, at the same time, be an outstanding athlete is not common. Harvard wants kids who can be highly successful in more than one area at a time. 
[/quote]

Among Harvard applicants, plenty.

And there is absolutely no evidence this rower didn't take the test 4 times and get tutoring.

I get Harvard wants kids who can be highly successful in more than one area at a time, but shouldn't one of those areas be academics?  1450 might a great general society score, so go row somewhere else.[/quote]

But Harvard is not solely about academics, it is also about producing leaders. They don’t require every student to have the high level athletic skills that frequently go hand in hand with high level leadership abilities, but they do want a significant percentage of their students to have those skills.

So some have 1450s and play on Division I teams, and some have 1540s but have lesser sports abilities, and possibly exhibit fewer leadership abilities. Selecting students with a mix of high level abilities and achievements allows schools to have a student community with a variety of ways for young people to contribute and learn from each other. 
[/quote]

The Venn diagram of athletes and leadership skills is not a perfect circle.  Stop pretending that it is.

If some unproven claim that athletes have great high level leadership skills is your justification for why they should be admitted, then we should admit that all bets are off and say Harvard can admit anyone they want.[/quote]

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