Reply to Why do some care about rules about gay people but ignore rule about shrimp, rape, and stoning women?

Forum Index » Religion

Reply to "Why do some care about rules about gay people but ignore rule about shrimp, rape, and stoning women?"

Subject:

Emoticons





More smilies

Text Color: Font: Close Marks

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]I went back through this thread to look for specific citations by the all-caps NT-emphasis poster. I also did some reading on the side.

From what I can tell, there are maybe three points in the NT that might be references to homosexuality. None of them are attributed to being said by Jesus, and none of them are in the four gospels. They are also using wording about which there is some debate about translation into English.

(See, e.g., the discussion here: https://www.westarinstitute.org/resources/the-fourth-r/what-the-new-testament-says-about-homosexuality/)

On the other hand, Jesus uses really strong and clear language about storing up material possessions and staying with your born family. I get that NT-poster wants to interpret it as only specific to the situation, but he says similar things multiple times, in different situations, and without qualifiers that would make it clear he was only talking about certain people, in certain times and places.

[quote]“If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even their own life—such a person cannot be my disciple. And whoever does not carry their cross and follow me cannot be my disciple." Luke 14:25-27

“Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth.” Matthew 6:19

“If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.” Matthew 19:21

"You still lack one thing. Sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me." Luke 18:18-23

“For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. And a person's enemies will be those of his own household. Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me, and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me." Matthew 10:34-37

"Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world—the desires of the flesh and the desires of the eyes and pride in possessions—is not from the Father but is from the world." John 2:15-17[/quote]

I think there are more, but those were the ones that came to mind. So there is this consistent theme of leaving behind things of the world, leaving behind your family to follow Jesus, and not clinging to or building up treasures. wealth, and possessions on earth. Contrast that to the fact we have nothing from Jesus saying that homosexuality is wrong, and the mentions that are in the NT are incidental parts of other discussions, in letter not involving the words of Jesus.

------------

Can you make a case that the NT is against homosexuality? I suppose so.[b] It takes some semantic acrobatics, and we definitely do not have any evidence it was important to Jesus[/b], but -- I guess? Maybe?

But if you are going to make the case against homosexuality based on the NT, and you are not making a BIGGER and louder case against materialism, I think you are not really basing your beliefs on the text of the NT. So, for example, if you criticize a cousin or a friend for having a same-sex partner, but you are mute in criticizing your wealthy uncle or McMansion-living acquaintances -- then that's a problem.

I think you are bringing your own issues to the table, not the NT. I think you are a hypocrite. And I think you should be careful -- very careful -- before sitting in judgement on other people, whether using all-caps or not. [/quote]

I'm sorry, [b]the New Testament language is not ambivalent on this, it takes no "semantic acrobatics." [/b] Paul calls out homosexual acts loud and clear.  If you want to disregard the Bible after the Gospels, that's fine, but it is by no means the "correct" way to read the Bible.  I mean, I, personally, do not really believe that homosexuality is wrong, but the Bible seems really clear on it and it is a difficult thing to reconcile.[/quote]

How do you answer the controversies about the translation of "malakoi"?

[quote]The idea that "we do not have any evidence it was important to Jesus" is also a bizarre idea.  Jesus did not condemn slavery, or pornography, or any number of things that we now say are evil.[/quote]

Sure. But if you focus on something about which he had nothing to say, and you do not make a bigger and louder argument against the things about which he had a lot to say -- then you'll have to forgive me for thinking you are not basing your arguments primarily on the New Testament text.[/quote]

Who is making a “bigger and louder” argument?  The thread is about homosexuality. It’s not something I talk about in my day to day. If you want to have a thread about how Christians ignore most of Jesus’ teachings, go do that.  It’s not really relevant to this thread.[/quote]

Options

	Disable HTML in this message
	Disable BB Code in this message
	Disable smilies in this message

Review message

Search Recent Topics Hottest Topics