Reply to That Brock Allen Turner is a dirtbag

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]The saddest thing about this case to me is that two men could witness a woman's rape in progress and people still go out of their way to defend and excuse the rapist. "He didn't actually rape her." (Well, no. The witnesses stopped it from happening.)  "He's a good kid who made a mistake." (He was raping a woman behind a dumpster.)  "She was really drunk."  (Rapists usually pick easy targets, and that is often people who are really, really drunk.) "This has ruined his life!" (He ruined his life.)

If people can defend a rapist caught in the act of rape, then there really is no hope for our culture. [/quote]

You've articulated what I find the most frustrating about this case. It doesn't matter what the case entails - it's always going to come down to what SHE did. Over 100 pages of why was SHE drunk? Why didn't SHE take steps to defend herself?

Why didn't HE not rape her?

Why does our fucked up society fall all over itself to defend a guy who was caught in the act? And fall all over itself some more to drag a rape victim through the mud? [/quote]

Obviously, the guy was arrested, jailed, convicted, sentenced and put on the sex offender registry.  Brock is being held accountable for his actions.

But there is a message in what Emily did here as well.  No way is it acceptable for a college graduate to show up at a frat party with younger, less experienced undergrads and allow herself to get so inebriated that she passes out behind a dumpster. Brock or no Brock - that was incredibly poor judgement on her part.  I hear so many people minimizing what Emily did.  But if that young woman truly was kissing a teenager and if she is the one who led him back behind those dumpsters - that does make a difference as to what Brock's intent was going back there with her.

Obviously if he helped her to stumble back there, she fell down and he took advantage of her - there is NO defending that.  [b]But if he thought that she was was kissing him back and making out *with* him and then she suddenly passed out that paints a different picture[/b].  A doctor on this thread has said that it would have been impossible.

But I saw enough heavy drinkers in my college and post college years to know that extremely drunk people are capable of doing all sorts of things.  They drive cars, they order pizza, they go swimming, they dance topless on bars, they fool around with teenagers at frat parties....

[/quote]

Even if the bolded were true, it should have ended there. Done. Passed out, his ONLY reaction should have been to assist her back to where she would be safe. If he's a total dirtbag, which I think has been established, he could have just left her there. But the point is that he did neither of those two things. He fingered her and dry humped her while unconscious. At that point, it's irrelevant a. what she did prior to being unconscious, and b. how she became unconscious. She's unconscious and he went ahead and touched her without not even consent, but without her knowledge. [/quote]

It is the very short time frame - the time in between them walking behind those dumpsters, starting to fool around and her passing out and the swedes coming along, roughly 7 minutes - that makes it unclear to me who did what to whom when.  [b]The swedes say that they saw him dry humping her, not fingering her[/b].  What does that mean?  I don't know.  But it stands to reason that if she was stupidly and very drunkenly on board going behind those dumpsters and then passing out in the middle of it that she could have appeared willing to be fingered to Brock.

Neither one of them had any business going behind those dumpsters together.  It was wrong of them both to go back there - she had no business kissing that drunk teenager and he had no business humping her when she passed out.  I am not excusing what Brock did.  But I am not about to give the green light to this woman for her appalling behavior, either.  It is not right to blame the victim or shame her for being sexually assaulted. But we can most certainly call her out for her own extremely bad behavior.

She describes her decision to go to that "dumb" party as a silly, goofy thing to do.  Having 4 shots of whiskey and drinking cups of vodka until you are practically comatose is not funny.  And it is not up to to a room full of drunk (yet still functional) younger kids to watch out for your drunk azz and make sure that you are making good decisions for yourself.  She does not seem to get that. And people seem to be giving her a pass for that.

I have not heard the drunken messages that she left but I can say that I have seen people who wouldn't have been able to even dial their phones much less leave a message - dancing and kissing.

[/quote]

He ADMITTED to fingering her. But wait, he's now a "drunk teenager?" Are you kidding me?? He's not a victim in any way shape or form, and you should be ashamed of yourself for even going there. And a jury, who listened to every single piece of evidence, was not "unclear about who did what to whom." A jury, whose job it was to determine whether there was guilt after hearing the evidence, unanimously agreed that he was guilty. Who the hell are you to second guess what they determined, after being privy to all of the information, not just what's online to read?

You obviously didn't read her impact statement if you don't think she's taking accountability for her actions. Don't worry, she's paying a steep price for her "extremely bad behavior." I mean, shame on her for preying upon this poor drunk teenager..... [/quote]

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