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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=jsteele][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]I haven't followed this closely and I'll be honest -- I'm not pro-gay, which is something I have to keep on the DL living on the east coast. If I own my own bakery or dress shop and don't want to bake a cake for a gay wedding or sell a dress for a lesbian wedding, how can I be forced to do so regardless of what the law says? I mean if the couple comes together and/or announces "we're a gay couple," can't you conveniently say -- oh sorry, we already have 11 other cake orders for that same Saturday and to be honest we don't have the staff to handle another; let me refer you to another nice bakery in town!?

Why does it matter what the law does or doesn't say -- it's easy to do what you want when you have your own business. (I agree that it's not possible if you're an employee -- if you're General Manager at the local Hilton and a gay couple comes to book a hall, you can't really turn them away without fearing losing your job if they suspect the reason and make allegations.)[/quote]

How could you be forced to help a hindu couple or a black couple?[/quote]

That's my point. A small business owner could see a Muslim couple and think -- nah don't want to be catering their wedding -- and make an excuse and turn them down. How could a law prevent that?[/quote]

You are right. Laws can make things illegal, but they can't always change behavior. Redlining is illegal. But, companies fairly regularly are caught doing it. Mortgage companies don't announce a policy of not lending to black people, but eventually a pattern of not lending to black people shows up. However, if nobody was paying attention, those companies would get away with it. The bakers and florists that have been sued didn't simply not want to do business with gay people. They wanted to make a point of not doing business with gay people. You can call that stupid or principled depending on your perspective. 
[/quote]

Huge oversimplification. The bakers and florists did do business with gay people, and had in the past. It was about a specific type of business transaction, i.e. participating in the weddings. That was a line they did not want to cross.

[b]Should a gay bakery be forced to make an anti-gay cake for a Christian celebration? [/b] I personally don't think so.

Why are Christian's  first amendment rights being trampled on in favor of the gay individuals? Why is the latter more 'important' than the former?[/quote]

A cake -- yes. They're in the business of providing cakes, so they should provide cakes without regard to factors about a customer such as religion or sexual orientation or plans for the product.

An "anti-gay" cake (what is that? presumably one that has slurs written on it somehow?) -- certainly not, if the bakery does not typically make such things. Especially when doing so could cause the bakery problems due to whatever the customer wants being considered discrimination or hate speech.

Give every customer no more or less than you would make available to every other customer.[/quote]

What is an anti-gay cake?  Does the icing clash?[/quote]

WTF is a gay bakery? LOL[/quote]

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