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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Check Wikipedia for "Gospel of the Ebionites." The Ebionites document is a fragment of 7 passages and you can read it online.

OP, now I know why you have been so coy about telling us to call Dirks, when we can read all 7 passages online for ourselves. Why? The Ebionites deny Jesus is a man and they say instead he's an archangel. That's totally inconsistent with a Islam too! And perhaps that's why only 1 guy out of the 10,000s who read this felt a need to convert to Islam.

Best of all, the Ebionites, according to Epiphanius, believed the Holy Gost descended, in the form of a dove, during Jesus' baptism. Do I need to pint out that the Holy Ghost is part of the Trinity....

To be fair to the Ebionites, we only know about them from these 7 lines written by somebody who disliked them, Epiphanius, who may not be a reliable witness. No, we don't have original Ebionite manuscripts, whatever OP says.  [/quote]

OP, could you please comment? There are only 7 lines to read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_the_Ebionites. It seems pretty clear that the Ebionites weren't contesting Jesus' divinity. Rather, the point of contention was the Ebionites' view that Jesus became divine during his baptism, compared to the writer Epiphanius' view that Jesus was born divine.  The Holy Ghost does indeed make an appearance at the baptism. Epiphanius reports that the Ebionites consider Jesus an archangel. Also, Epiphanius and the Ebionites apparently agreed that Jesus abolished animal sacrifice, and that seems like another difference with Islam that makes converting to Islam on the basis of this document a little surprising.

Do you still think this "debunks" the Trinity?

[/quote]

You can't be averse to calling and speaking to scholars on both sides of an issue. If you want to learn the truth, you have to be open to all opinions. I encourage you and anyone intertested to start investigating on their own, speak to many scholars, and ask for proof. It will be time consuming but well worth it for those of you who are truly interested in learning the truth.

I have yet to read the wikipedia Ebionites link. But I quickly googled Ebionites and found this link: http://ebionite.org and it contains their manifesto. If this is the same Ebionites group, it seems they denounce the trinity and divinity concepts introduced by the New Testament. And it looks like on this web site they clearly say they also reject Islam, despite the fact that Islam's position on Jesus is quite similar to the Ebionites.

I am interested enough about this topic to call Dr. Dirks to ask him specifically how we know the original manuscript is indeed the ORIGINAL one. I will report back.[/quote]

I can't believe anyone would bother.  So the Ebionites reject the trinity as it is set out in mainstream theology.  There were lots of groups in early Christianity that had alll kinds of take on the trinity.  But the PP who started this seems to be arguing: 1. There was an early group of Christians who rejected the trinity and Jesus's divinity, 2. some Harvard educated guy read their incredibly scant writings and converted to Islam, 3. If a couple of early manuscripts denied the Trinity, Christian teaching of the Trinity must be an anti-Islamic conspiracy, 4. Any right thinking person would see through this conspiracy and convert to Islam.

This is crazy.  Another major difference between Christian is that Islam believes Mohammed was a prophet of God and Christianity doesn't.  Ebionites didn't think Mohammed was a messenger of God either--he didn't exist at the time.  So the trinity can't be an anti-Islamic conspiracy--the whole doctrinal dispute was well settled before Mohammed was born.

Once again, the natural fall back for an Eionite would be Judaism, not Islam, whether the adherent lived 1800 years ago or is living today.  This Harvard grad's conversion to Islam is an aberrancy and certainly could not be rooted in the seven extant sentences of the Ebionite oevre.[/quote]

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