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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]If someone is willing to sell you a dog … it’s probably a puppy mill.

And never, ever buy a doodle of any kind. It’s just a mutt. [/quote]

Rescues and shelters sell the animals.   [/quote]
Rescues are non profits. They charge an adoption fee that serves two purposes: recouping some of the money they’ve spent on veterinary care, dog food and other expenses, and making sure you’re a serious adopter (not buying the dog to use as bait for dog fighting, you probably have money to cover regular veterinary care). They make sure dogs are healthy, groomed, dewormed, up to date on shots, and spayed or neutered if they’re old enough. The rescue I adopted from incurred all of those expenses for my dog, plus a dental exam and cleaning. The neutering alone was more than $400. The adoption fee was only $350.[/quote]

So, basically the same expenses as breeders.  That is still selling them.  They cherry pick dogs they know they can resell.  [/quote]
Sales have a goal of turning a profit or at least breaking even. Rescues have to have fundraisers because the adoption fees don’t cover all of their expenses, even for all the healthy, adoptable dogs. When there’s a dog with special medical needs, they don’t pass the cost of the medical treatment on to the adopters, and they don’t adopt the dog out until it’s medically stable. Rescues raise funds to cover expensive surgeries that adopters wouldn’t consider paying for. They’ll pay to treat medical conditions that occurred when the dog wasn’t even under their care.

Breeders are only paying for medical expenses for the first 8-12 weeks of puppies’ lives. They’re not spaying and neutering pups and having their teeth cleaned. They’re generally not paying for x-rays or ultrasounds or surgeries. They don’t cover the costs of treating the medical issues that arose from someone else’s neglect and abuse of animals.[/quote]

[b]Also breeders profit from more dogs, and where the dogs end up isn’t their problem. [/b]Nonprofit rescues are actively reducing the number of dogs by spaying and neutering and many of them will take dogs back if they don’t work out. [/quote]

Only true for pretty crap breeders. We had to do a credit check and virtual home visit including showing that we had purchased a crate, toys, games, etc and that our home was set up for a dog. Had to provide proof of employment and income and a sample "day in the life" for our puppy including Google map routes showing possible walks and local parks. Additionally agreed to their spay/neuter schedule and showed we had a vet lined up. We had to submit all vaccination records for the first year of life. They also required we return the dog if at any point we needed to surrender (never!) As all decent breeders do. Good breeders do kind of make you work for it and don't have a, "who cares where they end up?" Attitude. [/quote]
Yes, that's all signs of a good breeder (and I bet they  charge more that $500 for a puppy)
You get what you paid for as always [/quote]

3k but 7 years in and no significant vet bills;  every vet has said something along the lines of, "this is such a well bred dog." The initial cost is such a drop in the bucket. If you're going the breeder route, you shouldn't be penny wise and pound foolish. No puppy mills, they're terrible.[/quote]
Yes, I know that, thank you for confirming.
My thoughts exactly - good breeders care about their dogs; puppy mills - don't
This particular conversation was about difference between not-so-ethical breeders/puppy mills and rescues since other charge about the same - $500-700 for a pup.[/quote]

but at the end of the day a breeder is still in it for the money and profits from more dogs and while maybe willing to take back a dog, doesn't want to and is not in the business of caring for unloved dogs.

i had good luck with breed specific rescues -- you can get a perfect breed standard basset or whatever from a breed-specific rescue, which is run by people who care deeply about a particular breed and making sure they're all homed. we had a wonderful basset that could've been shown he fit the breed standard so well, he just couldn't hunt so some yokel down south put him on the street. cost me a $250 tax deductible donation. why would i ever go to a breeder when I could do that?[/quote]

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