Reply to the case for not divorcing

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Don’t model for your children things you don’t expect them to tolerate. [/quote]

Yes, but the point here is that some of the reasons people get divorced are actually things we DO expect kids to tolerate. Boredom is part of life. Long-term relationships with anyone require dealing with annoyances, reconciling different goals and needs, working through conflicts to remember what you liked about them in the first place.

Abuse is a hard line for me, and not just physical abuse-- verbal or emotional abuse, or abusive patterns of gaslighting and undermining that really mess with a person psychologically. You don't want to expose your kid to any of that.

But often people get divorced because they "grew apart" or "want different things" or one or both think they *might* be happier with someone else. And if you don't have kids or your kids are grown? Why not, to for it. But those are really not good reasons to throw out a family and force children into joint custody arrangements. Divorce also has an annoying ability to create continual conflict in families, because the second you split, the parents are now in competition with each other for time with kids, time without kids, resources, etc.

If there is not abuse, be a freaking grown up and figure out how to do what is best for the kids. Most divorced compromise the kids' well being. I'll allow that some small percent manage a cordial divorce with minimal impact on kids (live near each other, co-parent well, no custody or support arguments). Most don't.[/quote]

I don’t think abuse is the only thing you should show your kids you’ll tolerate. I think high conflict marriage isn’t something we should show kids we’ll tolerate. A spouse freeloading off the other and expecting to be waited on. I’m happily married, but I’m not raising my daughter to believe she has to pick up a grown man’s socks.[/quote]

Well there's nuance here. With better communication and problem-solving skills, a high-conflict relationship can be made more functional. Wouldn't it be better for kids if parents put the effort in to address their conflict, and resolve them at least well enough to keep the family together, then to say "ugh we fight all the time, I guess we have to split up." As though fighting all the time is something you have no control over.

Sure there might be relationships where the conflict is truly caused by just one person, and they absolutely will not change. But most of the time, it takes two to tango. Work on it.

Similar thing with freeloading. My DH sometimes freeloads. I call it out. We talk it through. He gets better. Our kids learn that you can speak up when you are in a relationship with someone who tries to take advantage of you or freeload off your hard work. They also learn that if your partner says "hey, this is not working for me, I don't like being expected to clean up after you," they can take that as the constructive criticism it is and do better.

Again, in some extreme cases you might have a person who can't talk it through and adjust, and in that case it might make more sense to divorce. But I'm also betting that the person who refuses to clean up after themselves AND is incapable of listening to a partner who asks them to try, is probably an abusive partner anyway.

So we're back to: unless there is abuse, your kids are probably better off if you can find a way to work it out, even if it doesn't perfectly maximize your individual happiness.[/quote]

There’s less nuance than you seem to think. Yes if marriages can be improved in the relatively short term (not years, because by that point you’ve already wrecked your children’s childhood and given them warped ideas about healthy relationships) you might be well served to do it.

On the other hand, again, I’m not raising my kids to think you tolerate high conflict or freeloading or laziness. “Improving” it for years and years is just tolerating it by a different name.  You’ve decided to tolerate your husbands freeloading, which is a choice you can make for yourself and your kids, but isn’t a choice you can make for someone else. [/quote]

You're also teaching your kids that when the going gets tough, get going. People want to screech about academic rigor, resilience, and grit in their children making them standouts, but don't exactly model that themselves.[/quote]

Except if you read what I said, I don’t say get going. I say if things can be improved in the short term, it’s worth it to try. But no I wouldn’t counsel my children to waste their lives or their children’s lives tolerating poor treatment so they could give themselves a gold participation badge. [/quote]

Ok but don't go on and on about modeling healthy relationships as being the utmost importance when you turn around and offer the kids a crap alternative like having no regular home and living out of a suitcase that goes back and forth because you couldn't figure out how to divide household labor. You obviously win, but the kids aren't better off. [/quote]

Part of healthy relationship modeling includes healthy co-parenting (i.e. no suitcases, a regular home, etc). If you’re miserable in your marriage your kid aren’t having a healthy childhood. If it can be fixed— fix it!— but you owe your kids better than wasted years. That’s my view from a happy and equal married relationship: the healthy divorces in our life are a lot better than some of the miserable marriages. [/quote]

My marriage isn't broken, loon. But [b]I see the toll divorce takes on so many of my children's friends whose parents won't speak to each other, kids can't come to parties b/c it's mom or dad's time and they aren't allowed, or they miss games b/c of some schedule problem[/b] not to mention the new step siblings they hate. So fixed! Right? [/quote]

I'm not divorced so I have no dog in this fight, but why on earth do you think that two people who won't speak to each other because they're divorced would be speaking to each other if they're married?!? Happily married people don't get divorced. Newsflash. [/quote]

I see one person blindsided with a lot of the divorces and then all the arguments about custody and money. It really brings out the ugly side, noticeable to bystanders. These were not abusive situations. One person felt unfulfilled or bored or whatever. The divorce certainly introduced a lot more conflict and anguish as people are in it to win it, and not give an inch. I doubt you know a lot of happy amicably divorced people.[/quote]

Have multiple people really told you they were leaving their marriages out of boredom? [/quote]

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