Reply to Old VMPI plans & FCPS’s E3 Math Pilot

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]America is so far behind in math and FCPS isn’t doing its students any favors.  Students who want to and are capable should be able to take Algebra 1 in 6th grade and allow students to take more advance math beyond AP Calc and AP Stat as seniors.  Particularly those students that want to excel in STEM or other quantitative fields such as Economics.  [/quote]

Why?  I took Calc BC as a senior in HS, Diff Eq as a freshman in college, and got a BSEE.  I took every undergrad math classes available and ran out by my last year.  What's the rush?[/quote]

Ok, let's be serious for a minute.

What's really at stake is that different children have different abilities, particularly when it comes to mathematics.  Because of that, they should be separated so that those who are better (from their aptitude) and engage better (from their passion) can be better challenged. This is an obligation we have as a society.

There is a problem here, which is that we do not have (nearly enough) math teachers in the US who can do that - because most teacher's [url=https://hechingerreport.org/debunking-one-myth-about-u-s-teachers/]math skills are rudimentary at best[/url] and/or because they are indoctrinated by the math ed folks like Boaler. The only solution we have is to have them cover later, and in general more challenging, topics earlier.  This way, teachers can teach from given curricula and follow materials.  This is far from ideal but it's the best we have at this point.  Those of us whose children have gone through Algebra I/II, Geometry, and even Calculus see how watered down these programs are. My child did worksheet after worksheet in Algebra I, got a 100% as average score on quizzes and tests, but wasn't asked to solve a single interesting math problem the entire year.  We needed to supplement a lot, but it still beat the alternative of having them sit in an "extension based" math class on time-wasting activities that for some count as math.  (Can you say [url=http://www.weaponsofmathdestruction.com/images/WP19-outofglue-800.jpg]glue[/url].)

Why do I say this?  Because the people proposing "extension based activities" that "go deep" and other nonsense have no clue of mathematics. Read [url=https://www.scottaaronson.com/cmf-documents/Jo_Boaler_Emails.pdf]Boaler's emails[/url] (Quote: "we are wondering if “inequalities” are at all relevant in data science"). Or recall the total quackery they displayed in the VMPI Youtube broadcasts.

So as much as it's not ideal, asking teachers to teach traditional material to more capable children in a separate setting at a younger age is the best solution we have under the constraints we're under. Incidentally, this is the best solution for everyone regardless of their talent. The alternative is to kill everyone's love of and skills in math the way [url=https://www.joannejacobs.com/post/algebra-for-none-fails-in-san-francisco]SFUSD[/url] did.
[/quote]

PP here.  The San Francisco example is easy to understand and see why it's problematic.

But rather than push for Algebra to be earlier and earlier, why don't we push for a return to rigor that the US public school system used to have? [/quote]

Exactly.

Rushing kids through the system doesn’t address the issue. [/quote]
Math reformers like Boaler define rushing as taking Algebra 1 before 9th grade and many local school districts seem sympathetic to that. That might work for some kids, but for many, that is not a good fit. Look at San Francisco's math reform and how it has prompted a surge in workarounds as kids try to get around their 9th grade Algebra 1 policy. Reformers are concerned about rushing math in elementary and middle school but don't seem at all concerned with rushing high school kids who want calculus.[/quote]

Developmentally, most kids aren't ready for abstract thinking until they are a little older. 
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4151197/

Even so, I think Algebra 1 should be available to 8th graders as a path to calculus. But acceleration beyond that is unnecessary in the grand scheme of things. 
[/quote]
Some kids are fine with abstract thinking earlier. We shouldn't be forcing all kids to slow down until all are ready. Many education researchers focus a lot on process skills and less on content knowledge. The latter is important and the more you practice procedures, the better the student comes to understand the material. Cramming Algebra 2 and Precalculus into one year without giving time to spiral through that content over several years as Boaler and San Francisco recommend is not the way to learn the material well.[/quote]

Again, I think offering Algebra 1 in 8th is reasonable and gives the option to do calculus in HS. 
[/quote]
Do you agree with removing current offering of Algebra in 7th to the small group of kids who qualify?

I dont see why you anyone would support removing this option. The county's accelerated science and math offerings in high school are much more expansive than 25 years ago. This is built partly on this small group of accelerated kids who tend to be academically focused across the board. This has contributed to FCPS reputation as an elite school system. TJ is also built on this reputation and its exceptional students. [/quote]

Who said FCPS is removing this option? My child is in a pilot program for E3 and nothing is changing for 5th grade math and beyond. E3 math is supposed to prepare MORE children to be ready to work at the current 6th grade level as 5th graders. These students will take the IOWA and if they qualify with that score and their SOLs, they can choose to do 7th grade Algebra. Nothing is changing with that. The goal of E3 is to get even more children ready for 8th grade Algebra, and especially a more diverse group. Studies show that beginning math tracking in 3rd and 4th grade leave out certain demographics and I think they are hoping that waiting just another year or two to begin firm tracking will create a more diverse population taking Algebra in 8th grade. [/quote]
What SOLs will current E3 fourth graders take next year in fifth grade -- the Grade 5 SOL or the Grade 6 SOL? If the latter, are schools planning to compact both 5th and 6th grade content into 5th grade next year?[/quote]

We were told that when our 4th grader is a 5th grader he'll do the advanced math we're all used to, learning 6th grade content and taking the 6th grade SOL. I think they think that what they have done with 4th grade E3 math extensions and some extra math work during Level 3 pull outs will be enough to make this jump. Remains to be seen how it will go!

My older son didn't move into advanced math until 5th grade, so he skipped 5th grade math as well and it worked really well for him. Hoping it works for my younger as well. [/quote]
Thanks. How often does your 4th grader get extensions and extra math during pull outs each week? Great things worked out so well for your older son. Had he covered the 5th grade material on his own before entering advanced math or did he pick up 5th grade content as he & the class did 6th grade work?[/quote]

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