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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]I'm the Caucasus poster from earlier.

Yes, absolutely Russia is racist, even if not officially racist.

I don't even have a forever grudge against Russia. I have visited there many times and things actually were decent in 2012 for foreigners, for the most part. I wanted to visit Adygea and Kabarda, where my family was from, but remember being told by Russians to not associate with "those people" and not visit the Caucasus. I then said, my mother is cherkeshenka, and they told me that Circassians/Kabardians are okay because they are "more like Russians" :shock: . But I don't look like a Caucasus person to them, I'm Circassian and German by heritage and have blonde hair. I went anyway and I had a great time, I got to see Mount Elbrus. Even so, the Russians there told me not to associate with the locals. And yet I found other North Caucasians to be more hospitable and less racist.

That was in 2012, I would never visit Russia again now.

[quote]I was born and raised in Grozny.

There is prejudice toward people from the Caucasus in Russia proper but there is no legal discrimination on the books. In the eyes of the law, there is no difference between them and any other Russian citizen. Certainly enough of them have advanced to dizzying heights in Russia proper in business, politics and the military! Compare this to legal differences and treatment of the colonizer/colonized in Israel, Latin America, colonial Britain etc. What rights does the law in Russia deny to the ethnic Dagestanis?

There is no "insane" level of racism in Russia at all, no.

I'm just going to let this hang here: Chechnya and Ingushetia residents account for every fourth subsidized mortgage loan in Russia.[/quote]

I am gathering that you are ethnic Russian and you left Grozny before the wars?

Tell me then, why do Russians want Chechnya to begin with? I'm assuming you didn't speak the language, had no affinity for the culture, based on the past statements and this attitude that the Chechens needed Russians to save them from themselves. And then Russians complain that they funnel so much money to the Caucasus, you know хватит кормить кавказ. Why not just let it go? Of course I would never want to live in Ramzan Kadyrov's kingdom, but Putin is his enabler. Maybe when he has no more money and support, he will be exposed as a charlatan and would be, removed by his own.

I just don't like the mentality that any small nation NEEDS Russia to "civilize" them.

And back to Ukraine, good luck to Russia on revitalizing the territories they destroyed. What is the end goal, to install more Kadyrovs? More fake potemkin villages? [/quote]

It’s clear you know nothing about all the traditions of the Caucasus some them bewildering 
I mean racism is wrong but there is a reason why many ethnic Russians prefer to not associate with those from the North Caucasus [/quote]

You mean like bridenapping?  :mrgreen: Why do Russians think men from the Caucasus will just come and randomly steal them as brides. Don't flatter yourselves  :mrgreen:  Honestly, people were very respectful and never expected a foreigner to adhere to their traditions, just respect them. In Nalchik for example nobody even wears headscarves.

But see you are only proving my point. If cultures are so incompatible, then why do they need to be part of Russia? You don't even want to associate with Caucasians, so why did Russia fight so hard to keep their republics? [/quote]

The answer to your question is "because no one gives anything up unless they have to."

From a Grozny native, from your bridenapping story, it's clear to me you have no idea why it is done and to whom.  Russian women are never the target of bridenapping because a) Chechens almost never marry out, and b) Russians do not put a premium on virginity the way Chechens do.

But since you asked about bewildering traditions, what about:

- honor killings of women by any male relative who considers his honor stained by the behavior of his female relative

- absolute primacy of men, including young brothers over their older sisters
 
 - unconditional custody to father in case of divorce.  Children returned to husband's relatives in case a widow or a divorcee remarries. You have no idea of the heartbreak a divorced woman goes through when she's barred from seeing her kids by force.

- daughter-in-law expected to serve everyone in the house, starting with in-laws and ending with herself.  You haven't lived until you saw a Chechen newlywed sweeping the floors at 6 am after her wedding because "that's tradition".

- total worship of virginity.  The bride found to be nonvirgin is returned to parents the next day and in all likelihood will end up dead for shaming the family.

- absolute rejection of anything other than heterosexuality.  Gay men and women at high risk of extrajudicial killing with total support of their families.

- women do not marry out ever.  A woman married with no consent of her family is tracked down and forcibly returned home, likely killed if virgin at marriage.

[/quote]

DP, +1

I am also Russian and what you are saying is accurate. I’ve read the whole exchange. The PP is apparently Circassian but grew up in the West. Turkish Circassians are much different than Caucasus natives, especially Chechens, because they are more integrated since Ataturk. Often by force! Sometimes every other Turk can claim a Circassian grandmother somewhere down the line.

I understand the argument for saying, why bother hanging onto the Caucasus. What you are explaining is a very complex situation and structure that simply cannot be described with Western politically correct discourse. The closest I can say is that Russian influence in Chechnya is harm-reduction in the least

What does PP have to say, apparently?

Chechens are freedom fighters, Russians are racist, bridenapping is amusing, and Dzhokhar Dudayev was hot. 😳[/quote]

First, neither of you is taking a logical point or answering my question. It is a paradox: Russia has to control and hold onto the North Caucasus, but also, North Caucasus people are so different and incompatible with Russians? So which is it? 
What you really are not explaining is how Russia is any different from any other old world colonialist. You think when the Spanish conquered indigenous people in South America that they were just oh so concerned with their rituals of human sacrifice? Give me a break.

Second, if you go back to  what I said earlier, I was actually critiquing the perspective of diaspora populations as also flawed. I brought of Dudayev originally because 1) He made accurate predictions about Ukraine, and 2) to illustrate the alternate perspective of diaspora populations, which I also critiqued. My mother's family is diaspora Circassian, and for example they were very stridently against the 2014 Olympics in Sochi. However, when I visited the Caucasian republics around that time, most people were neutral to supportive of Sochi. The Chechens I knew from Turkey were also very openly pro-separatist and not in any realistic way, and they are the people sharing the viral Dudayev video.

Also, Russian PP contradicts herself when talking about Caucasus traditions. Yes, it's true that they, especially Chechens, almost exclusively marry their own. Since that's true, then why would a Russian be so worried? When I visited other Caucasus republics, I was treated very respectfully, as both a foreigner and someone with a common heritage, and especially since I chose to come and visit my ancestral land and showed interest. There was never any additional expectation of me as a young woman at the time. In fact, the ski instructor who was with us was ethnically Balkar, and a woman. [/quote]

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