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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]The problem is that men who want to take advantage of “equality” in splitting the check don’t necessarily want to put in equal work in the other aspects of the relationship/household. [/quote]

The problem is that women who want to take advantage and not be equal in splitting the check don't necessarily want to put in equal work to be a financial partner in the relationship. They don't share the financial responsibility for the relationship or household.

They should just add traditional gender roles option to dating apps. Let the men who want to pay and the woman who want to be pretty for their man - meet up. Then the people for whom those qualities are important in a mate can find each other. Let the gentlemanly and ladylike people find each other easier and let those of us who want more equality rule them out faster.  [/quote]

You can't have your cake and eat it but not share the cost. Either have traditional roles or have modern style equality.[/quote]

This might be what you think but there are plenty of men who are happy to pay for the dates and have an equitable marriage. A man insisting women pay for dates isn't some sign of commitment to feminism. I think it makes you sound like a jerk. [/quote]

If he insists on paying then the ship has already sailed on an equitable marriage as he has shown he doesn't respect me as an equal partner.

It shouldn't be about either insisting. To me, equality is that it is a non issue - someone pays, who cares who it is. Those are the men I am attracted to. Not someone who insists on paying or on me paying. [/quote]

And if he’s ok with you splitting larger expenses like mortgage, joint vacations etc further down the road? If he continues picking up the check at restaurants but otherwise we are equal, I don’t see how it’s him not seeing me as an equal partner financially. [b]Picking a check is sort of same thing as telling me how nice I look that evening, bring coffee to bed, gifting me lingerie or jewelry, giving flowers. [/b]Types of things men do to show their sexual adoration and desire nothing related to family budgeting really. [/quote]

In a relationship where both are seen as equals, a woman can do nice things for their partner as well to show their adoration and interest - it just isn't one directional. If a woman wants to pick up the check to treat him to dinner to show she cares - she should be able to do that as well.

If you think the actions are different for men and women but it is still an equal relationship[b], what is it women should always be doing when dating to show the man they care and are interested and are putting in effort?[/b] I am just not about there being a list of man actions and woman actions that are distinct. For me respect as an equal means we can both do any action to show how we feel. If he wants to cook dinner - great - I am not going to insist that no, I am the woman and must do the cooking and equally if I want to pay - great, he needs to not insist that no he is the man and he must pay. [/quote]

Ha, surely you know this. Surely you're familiar with what women who like men do that does not involve paying for dates (although I don't think there is anything wrong with a woman paying for dates).

When a woman likes a man, she might (not always, but might, all women are different) bring him cookies, make him dinner, give him nice gifts for his birthday or just because, laugh at al this jokes, text him a lot, rearrange her schedule to spend time with him, and dress really nicely when she is around him. Women almost always do these things. Too  much probably. I know I scared off at least one guy I was dating with showing too much interest, and I didn't have to spend a dime. [/quote]

The difference for me is that there isn't a list for men and a list for women. Picking up a check, telling them how nice they look that evening, bring coffee to bed, gifting clothes or jewelry, giving flowers, bring cookies, make dinner, give nice gifts for a birthday or just because, laugh at their jokes, text a lot, rearrange their schedule to spend time with them, and dress really nicely. In my world, both men and women can do any of the above.

I am not a girly girl woman - never have been so since I already don't fall into traditional gender roles, it has never been something I valued. I have also been very independent so I have no interest in being financially taken care of. I don't find that dynamic endearing at all. [/quote]

Sure, they can! You asked what women should do when they show effort, and I showed you some examples, but of course men and women can and should do non-monetary things to show interest.

You keep implying that wanting to be pursued, which would include not handling dates, means you're into traditional gender roles, not independent, a girly-girl, not interested in an equitable partnership, etc. I'm trying to explain to you that no, you can prefer that a man pick up the check without being a girly-girly dependent traditional woman. [/quote]

I think the issue is that if there is an expectation that one gender will do this, it's problematic. [/quote]

Do you consider that for everything or just paying?

I don’t see men wearing makeup or grooming— which is an expectation of women.

Men don’t do any childbearing of breastfeeding— expectation of women.

Women are expected to take long maternity leave and make career sacrifices at much higher rates than men.

So when you want identical expectations of both genders I’ll find it compelling that men and women should pay for dates equally. Until then I’ll think you’re cheap or (at best) lacking nuance in what constitutes equality. If you have children you have probably said this to them— equal and fair are not always the same.[/quote]

I’m a woman. I always paid for myself on dates. I don’t dress up or wear makeup or do my hair because I hate doing those things. Never did them on dates, I’d pick an activity like hiking or rock climbing where I could dress however I wanted.

[b]I chose not to make career sacrifices despite the intense pressure to. I also chose not to breastfeed.[/b]

Things can be equal if you make the choice to keep it equal. [/quote]

Uh, congratulations on choosing work over your kid?[/quote]

Thanks! I worked hard for a couple years and am now in a place where I work 6 hours a day and can take off the entire summer to be with my kids while making more money than most. 100% worth it, I never have to worry about money and I spend more time with my kids than most parents. [/quote]

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