Reply to why is russia friendly with belarus but not ukraine?

Forum Index » Political Discussion

Reply to "why is russia friendly with belarus but not ukraine?"

Subject:

Emoticons





More smilies

Text Color: Font: Close Marks

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]So can someone remind me…
When the US went into Iraq, did we bomb all of their infrastructure and rape their children? Did we just destroy the place and roll out?
Can’t recall[/quote]

Oh, the lady wants reminders.  OK...

Since 2003, congenital malformations have increased to account for 15% of all births in Fallujah, Iraq. Congenital heart defects have the highest incidence, followed by neural tube defects. Similar birth defects were reported in other populations exposed to war contaminants.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3037062/

Between October 1994 and October 1995, the number of birth defects per 1,000 live births in Al Basrah Maternity Hospital was 1.37. In 2003, the number of birth defects in Al Basrah Maternity Hospital was 23 per 1,000 live births. Within less than a decade, the occurrence of congenital birth defects increased by an astonishing 17-fold in the same hospital. A yearly account of the occurrence and types of birth defects, between 2003 and 2011, in Al Basrah Maternity Hospital, was reported. Metal levels in hair, toenail, and tooth samples of residents of Al Basrah were also provided. The enamel portion of the deciduous tooth from a child with birth defects from Al Basrah (4.19 μg/g) had nearly three times higher lead than the whole teeth of children living in unimpacted areas. Lead was 1.4 times higher in the tooth enamel of parents of children with birth defects.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3464374/

Civilian infrastructure, you say:

Former UN humanitarian coordinator for Iraq, Denis Halliday, who resigned from the position in disgust in 1998, contends that epidemics of cholera, dysentery and hepatitis that have plagued Iraq since the 1991 Gulf War were the direct result of the US deliberately targeting Iraq’s infrastructure. He cites a recently released declassified US Defense Intelligence Agency document from the start of the conflict, pointing out Iraq’s vulnerable water situation. The document predicted that the shortage of pure drinking water resulting from the bombing of infrastructure could “lead to increased incidences, if not epidemics, of disease”.

“I think there’s no doubt whatsoever that the Americans had worked out the vulnerability of Iraq in terms of clean fresh water,” Halliday said. “So they set about destroying electrical power capacity, which is essential, of course, for the treatment and distribution of water.”

Halliday estimated that by 1999 the destruction of Iraq’s infrastructure and UN sanctions had directly caused the deaths of 600,000 children and 500,000 adults through malnutrition and disease. Tens of thousands more people, military and civilian, were killed in the US-led military assault. What will be the cost in human suffering of Washington’s next criminal venture in the Gulf?
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2002/11/iraq-n04.html

During the 2003-2017 period, Iraq Body Count recorded the killings of over 7,000 Iraqi children, among them 932 are attributed to the Islamic State, while twice as many were killed by the US-UK coalition. Estimates suggest that over 7,400 Iraqi children have been killed up to 2021, with over 1,000 deaths attributed to the Islamic State, and twice as many killed by the US-UK coalition.

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/north-africa-west-asia/the-impact-of-the-war-on-terror-on-iraq-state-economy-and-civilian-deaths/
The mass killings of Iraqis commenced on 19 March 2003, with the ‘shock and awe’ bombing of Baghdad. Millions sat transfixed before their TV screens, watching as bombs and missiles exploded. The reports came with the warning that they contained flashing images. True enough, the sky over Baghdad flashed orange and golden, the sounds of war filling our ears. The narrative of terror that began that day was to last for years: terror from the sky, terror on the ground, terror from the foreign soldier, terror from one’s neighbour.

https://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/costs/human/civilians/iraqi
Several times as many Iraqi civilians may have died as an indirect result of the war, due to damage to the systems that provide food, health care and clean drinking water, and as a result, illness, infectious diseases, and malnutrition that could otherwise have been avoided or treated.  The war has compounded the ill effects of decades of harmful U.S. policy actions towards Iraq since the 1960s, including economic sanctions in the 1990s that were devastating for Iraqis.

I mean, really.  Should I go on?[/quote]

So the US targeted infrastructure during the first war, when Iraq invaded Kuwait. 
Yeah that’s tough. Don’t invade your neighbor I guess.[/quote]

I'm just gonna let it sit here that your response to:

"During the 2003-2017 period, Iraq Body Count recorded the killings of over 7,000 Iraqi children, among them 932 are attributed to the Islamic State, while twice as many were killed by the US-UK coalition. Estimates suggest that over 7,400 Iraqi children have been killed up to 2021, with over 1,000 deaths attributed to the Islamic State, and twice as many killed in by the US-UK coalition."

was "yeah that's tough."[/quote]

NP.  2000 children died over 14 years due to US/UK coalition actions? Almost 1000 Ukrainian children have been killed by Russian attacks in the last 8 months. 3 million children inside Ukraine and 2.2 million children outside Ukraine need humanitarian assistance. Russians have deliberately bombed hospitals and schools.  2 out of every 3 Ukrainian kids have been displaced.

And your argument is what? — that because children in one conflict weren’t sufficiently protected, we should close our eyes to this and let children suffer similarly?  The US did an f’d up thing by providing false justification for war in Iraq, but is that really justification for Putin to invade Ukraine (a second time)?

I am amazed that the main argument on this thread is - the world failed to protect civilians before so why should the world do it now? 
[/quote]

Do you really want me to count displaced Iraqi children?

[b]Is it so wrong to want all invaders to be treated equally?[/b][/quote]

If your equality argument is we did a crap job at protecting civilians from the invader in X conflict, so we should keep doing a crap job and allow invaders to violate humanitarian law without consequence, then yes, I think it's wrong to work for and support that kind of equality.

This is actually a long-running argument in human rights -- some believe that international law has no meaning if it is not equally applied to all.  Others believe that international law is a work in progress and we are building to a world where it applies equally to all, but it's important to take what enforcement is achievable.  I am firmly in the latter camp.

Many who were against the creation of the ICTY argued that many war crimes since Nuremburg had not been prosecuted, and so the IntlComm shouldn't create the ICTY.  I think the creation of the ICTY and subsequent prosecutions substantially changed the landscape - numerous subsequent tribunals were created and perpetrators were prosecuted.  More states have used universal jurisdiction to prosecute perpetrators. This has lead to more attention on such crimes and quicker moves to legal consequences.  Is it perfect?  Far from it, but I believe this is a small step on the path to creating better human security architecture.

So, while I don't think it's wrong to want all invaders to be treated equally, I do think it is wrong to use past failures to prevent progress in this area.  Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. [/quote]

Options

	Disable HTML in this message
	Disable BB Code in this message
	Disable smilies in this message

Review message

Search Recent Topics Hottest Topics