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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]We need to teach kids that studying from old exams without express permission from the teacher if the course is cheating. If the teacher hands out old exam copies to study from, that's fine. If one is getting old exam questions from another student or from someone who has "files" of old exam questions, it is cheating.

The above is the definition I and many of the parents I have spoken with grew up with and it is not that difficult to understand. We can't tell our kids that it is up to the teachers to keep them from cheating; our kids need to be developing their own inner compasses to determine right from wrong. Blaming teachers for kids cheating confuses kids and makes cheating an issue that is murkier than it needs to be.

I think part of the problem is that some kids don't realize that asking friends about questions on a test or studying old tests from sources other than their teacher is cheating. I'm not sure why they don't know this at their age, but it needs to be made clear and then backed up by consequences.

It will hurt all the kids at TJ if the school gets a reputation as a place where kids cheat to get high GPAs. 
[/quote]

Are you one of the lazy TJ teachers by any chance?

You "grew up" with a particular norm (and maybe others did as well) but that doesn't make it the universal norm.  How do the old test papers get outside of TJ and into the hands of the selling companies?  Are the teachers and the school aware of this?  If so, what have they done to fix it?   Repeating on every thread that it's not the teachers job and trying to define cheating to suit your mental model takes us nowhere.

What are TJ and the teachers doing about it?  Tell me that and I will support it.  I can't (nor you) can convince all parents to come up with a single plan.  The school should.  If they don't they suffer the consequences.[/quote]

Why are you justifying students cheating?  "Because it is there..." is not a valid excuse.[/quote]

I did not mean to come off as mean... I think I've seen your posts on other threads and responded likewise... No, I do not justify cheating.  I believe that the school and teachers are in the best position to enforce anti-cheating measures.  I also don't believe that reviewing old tests is not teaching.  It is ONLY IF the teacher specifically says not to (Actually, I'd question why he/she is not changing the tests if that's such a concern).   If my DC cheats and I find out, there would be hell to pay.  However, if that is going to affect their future, I can't have that either.

It's like drugs.  If my DC does drugs, I'll be pissed off and try to fix it.  If someone wants to through him in jail, I will fight tooth and nail to stop that because it's only a downward spiral from there.  I think parents of most cheaters are in a similar situation.  They don't want their kids to cheat but if they do and are caught, they don't want them removed either.  The school and teachers have to lead the charge. [/quote]

If your kid cheats at TJ I want him gone. End of story. If my kid cheats at TJ, she is gone. We have zero tolerance for that. None

Then again, I wouldn't consider our base school as a "jail" that would start a "downward spiral".  WTF? Do you really think that that the 98% of FCPS kids who don't attend TJ are in jails on a downward spiral?

That is some screwed up logic, and a screwed up ethical standard. If only 10% of Asian parents at TJ are saying "yes, it's bad, but...", they give the other 90% a bad name. In fact, any parent of any race who does this give ALL TJ families a bad name.

Cheating should not be  a slap on the wrist crime.  In my college, you were expelled for your first honor code violation. Someone in my law school class cheated on a test, it was reported to the state bar, and she was not allowed to sit for the bar her first year out of law school.

TJ should expel every kid who cheats.  That will solve the problem quickly. Attending TJ is a privilege, not a right. Kids should recognize they were given a wonderful opportunity, and make the most of by really trying to learn.

Teachers can write 6 tests to try to keep kids from cheating.  But as long as there are no consequences, some kids will still find a way.

And again-- base school is a prision?  I bet they love you at neighborhood gatherings. What a snob. Kids go to Ivy's from our base school too.[/quote]

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