Reply to Race in college admissions is back in front of the Supreme Court Oral Argument on Oct. 31 (Monday)

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]In 2018:

707 black kids got a 5 on AP CalcBC
19,710 Asian kids got a 5 on AP CalcBC

Herein lies the problem [/quote]

In U.S. education based on the unique history of this country, I'm not surprised this gross disparity exists.

However in strictly looking at the zero sum dynamic of elite college admissions, it is supply and demand.

Those 707 black students - and black students of that caliber - are in extremely high demand.

When you see the news articles about a black kid getting accepted to ALL of the Ivies, this is the cohort.

So when detractors say that these same black kids at elite schools are " unqualified," no they are not. [/quote]

?? Why would anyone say these kids who got 5 on AP Calc BC are not qualified?  most of them are probably well  qualified. However when  we go color blind, they might not get in all of the Ivies. Race should not be treated as rare commodity.  These kids are probably the biggest victims of Affirmative Action. They don’t get the credit they deserve. [/quote]

These kids would absolutely benefit from affirmative action -- it uses race as only 1 factor to tip the scales when students are typically competitive.  Without it, the number of African American students, based on this stat,  would drop just by the odds of number of kids earning 5s on this AP. Then the schools lose out on diversity,  and society loses out on leadership.  There was an excellent argument made about integration in OCS and equity. Race has to be a factor to achieve equity at times.[/quote]

"Society loses out on leadership" showing your bias that Asians can't be leaders.[/quote]

You've misunderstood me (pp here). I am talking about groups that go un or underrepresented in leadership, using military officers as an example.  It was a problem in the armed forces that had to be remedied by being race conscious (why I mentioned ocs).  I am talking about including,  not excluding. That is what the admissions offices are trying to do -- make sure the underrepresented minorities have some presence at these institutions. Have diverse representation in leadership because having different perspectives is important.  No one is seeking to exclude other students. [/quote]

Giving "presence" to one race, for racial reasons, [i]of necessity [/i]excludes other students of other races. And you only have to look at the numbers to see that elite universities are consciously seeking to exclude Asians.

And all this leaves aside the question of whether "race consciousness" has improved our military leadership. Seems to me we haven't won a lot of wars lately...[/quote]

The numbers prove the opposite.  There is a far higher percentage of Asian American students in top colleges than the overall population. 
 [/quote]

No, the numbers clearly prove discrimination.

Asians students are disproportionately intelligent and hardworking relative to their numbers in the population. The proportion of Asians you would see at top colleges on the basis of merit would be far higher than it is - the numbers are lower than they should be because the top schools are discriminating against them. To put it in terms people in the DMV would understand, without discrimination the demographics at the top colleges would look like the demographics of TJ High School - 60 or 70% Asian.[/quote]

More intelligent.. no that is not proven

Harder working … no that is not proven

Are obsessed with test prep… yes Asian and white prep school kids are obsessed with top $ tutors and test prep[/quote]

“Intelligence” connotes something innate to some people, so leave that out.  But Asians definitely have higher academic achievement and preparedness by college age, and definitely study harder. Data supports both. In particular one study has Asians studying 4x Blacks, and 2x Whites. Do you find this surprising? And do you think there is no link between studying and academic quality from an admissions standpoint?[/quote]

Asians do not have higher achievement.

You think high test scores = high achievement. You actually think “study more” is something Harvard desires, they don’t. If you told me Asian study 10x less and get 10x high scores I’d be impressed. If it takes these Asians you have made up in your head 10x longer to learn the material perhaps they aren’t smart enough for Harvard.

Nobody GAF about studying hard and getting straight A’s. Once you are within the Ivy index you are “qualified”, then it takes something else to get accepted.

One thing we do know is that grades and changing the world (whether positive or negative) are not GPA/SAT related once you hit the Ivy index.

Harvard is not a “reward” for hard work, Harvard is not looking for a good hard worker. Harvard wants people who are in unicorns, that seem like they have some sort of je ne sais quoi.

That’s the problem with rule followers. You want to know the measurable equation to get into Harvard and thee isn’t one.

For example, the Parkland kids, they all have terrible GPAs and SAT scores. But they have something to offer that most kids can’t.

[/quote]

Mic drop. They are looking for change makers and leaders. Regardless of grades and regardless of race, too. [/quote]

100+ pages in, this isn't just about grades (or SATs) but about applicants that excelled across all categories including ECs. Except personality scores only from ppl who never met them [/quote]

100+ pages in, EVERYONE who applies to Harvard excels across the board, and for many of them that includes personality scores. Harvard is not trying to exclude Asians.[/quote]

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