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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Echoing the poster at 16:46, if your son ever decides to convert to Judaism, he will need to be circumcised. Needless to say, it's a much more complicated and painful procedure when done on an adult. If you want to ensure your son is able to meaningfully choose between his two cultures later in his life, you should circumcise him as an infant (when the procedure is quick and mostly pain-free).

Also note that in reality, men are able to convert to Judaism much more easily than women--especially men of patrilineal Jewish descent. That's partially due to the huge gender imbalance in those seeking to convert, with prospective female converts vastly outnumbering prospective male converts. It is a good idea to keep your son's options open, especially given his favorable position vis a vis conversion.[/quote]

This is so gross. I imagine this attitude has no basis on Jewish tradition and arose out of practicality. This is also the reason that OP is treated poorly amongst the Jewish. I can't think of a less compelling reason to get the circumcision. Yuck. Just yuck.[/quote]

OP here. Yeah, I had a bit of a WTF moment reading that post too! I mean fine, do it to go with the flow of your culture or what not -- rituals aren't rational. But when it comes to adult conversion it is just so weird that he'd have to cut off part of his penis to join the religion. I get living your life a certain way, joining a community, exploring beliefs. But what in the world does trimming his foreskin have to do with the kind of person he is? As I said upthread, have no idea who my son will be, but I very much hope he won't end up thinking that who he is depends on a flap of skin. That is really besides the point, also of anything I have found profound or attractive about Jewish thought and culture.[/quote]

Because being Jewish can't be boiled down to being a good person. Judaism doesn't say you need to be Jewish or follow Jewish law in order to be a good person. Judaism is about living your life in a certain way, according to Halacha (Jewish law). And circumcision happens to be a cornerstone of following Jewish law. Keeping kosher and shabbat isn't rational or about being a good person; it's about living a Jewish life. Same goes for circumcision. I know you say you've thoroughly explored Jewish culture, but it is impossible to truly grasp this or understand the purpose of Halacha unless you've lived it or followed it.

Full disclosure: I grew up Reconstructionist but became Orthodox later in life, so I understand both sides of the coin.[/quote]

Ok, that's one interpretation of Judaism.  I have many Orthodox friends as well as friends who grew up Orthodox and left it, and of course centering your life around the observance of all these laws is a totally different way of understanding Judaism than what reform Jews live.  Since so many Jews (who consider themselves as Jewish as you) don't even keep kosher or really live their day-to-day lives any differently than non-Jews in terms of following "Jewish law," then you're really debating here within Judaism about how to understand it.

As for adult circumcision, I looked into it further and actually the argument that you should do it to give your child the option is looking weaker and weaker given that you can also just get the ritual drop of blood and be done with it. So if he really needs to prick his penis to be a Jew when he grows up, good luck to him.

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Correct. I am articulating the Orthodox view of what it means to practice Judaism, which holds that being Jewish = being obligated to follow Jewish law. (And to clarify, a Jew'a failure to follow Jewish law doesn't make them not Jewish or less Jewish. They're still Jewish; they're just violating Jewish law.)

Your claim about circumcision is absolutely false, at least with respect to the Orthodox movement. You need a pin prick even if you're already circumcised. No Orthodox rabbi would sanction a conversion without circumcision.

I have no idea what the other movements have to say, but it does indeed look like they are dropping the circumcision requirement, as well as Jewish law altogether, for that matter. Not sure what remains, other than liberal humanism. (Which is fine, but what's the point in insisting that it's Judaism? Just be a good liberal human, if that's what you want.)
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I read what you said, and I don't think there is much that Conservative/Masorti Judaism disagrees with (I would say that being Jewish is about more than keeping Jewish law - "one can be a cad within the halacha" and "derech eretz kadma le torah" - but then I think most Orthodox believe that as well. )

As for dropping Jewish Law in Reform, that happened over 150 years ago, its not something they are just getting around to.  If anything they have been inching back towards it over the last 40 years or so. In the case of bris mileh though, this was something that was universal practice in Reform 40 years ago, not out of respect for halacha, but as deeply, deeply embedded folkway, and the assault on circumcision in the wider culture appears to have eroded that.

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