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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]

You're addressing at least 2 different folks. I didn't write about martyrdom.

Maybe they wanted more followers so the holiday was [b]co-opted. [/b]Clearly they had some reason to[b] lie, [/b]idk. [/quote]

Can I point out the obvious? You're starting with your own premise:  "They were deceitful, I know they were deceitful, damn them!"  But unfortunately you can't come up with a credible MO for this alleged deceitful behavior. So you shrug it off with "clearly they had some reason, idk."

I'd love to watch any jury in the country dispose of your "there must be some reason why they're guilty" argument.

Rhetoric teachers would weep.[/quote]

It was a lie a[b]nd you know this. It is not up to nonbelievers to supply the motive behind using the Solstice to make Jesus-is-Fun Day. Ask your god why if you are confused.[/quote]

I tend to agree with this... and if anyone doubts that early Christians [b]co-opted [/b]both Solstice and Equinox from earlier polytheistic religions, take a look at the decorated tree in your living room and the chocolate eggs Jesus hides in your backyard. The proof is in the dates and symbols. There is no record of date for the Jesus birth and resurrection, yet these events were attached to pre-existing fetes.
[/quote]

Nobody has disputed this, not even on this thread. Several posters actually agreed with Atheist troll (PP#1) on this particular point. I'm one of them (12/16/2014 14:43) where I pointed out that 95% of Christians already know that December 25th was originally a pagan holiday, but reasonable people understand that many things are lost to time, including Jesus' true birthdate, so the early church fathers took (aka "coopted") an existing holiday.

The relevant point here is that "coopting" =/= "lying" or "deceitful."  These words all have very different meanings. Check a dictionary if you doubt it.

In the context of the thread, Atheist Troll, at PP#1 above, was trying to argue that co-opting December 25 was a "lie" because, supposedly, "It proves that they had deceitful intents and were willing to fudge details in order to get what they wanted" (12/16/2014 15:23) and similarly, "It was deceitful plain and simple" (12/16/2014 15:43). She then made a giant and logically incoherent leap from this supposed "fact" of "lying" to arguing that Jesus = Horus of the severed, golden penis. Or something like that, who the heck knows because she's wrong that "several other gods were born on December 25" (12/16/2014 14:18 , where Atheist Troll identifies herself as OP). To digress a bit, yes, there were pagan gods with similar or not identical resurrection stories, but these stories don't necessarily involve December 25th birthdates; the Horus golden severed penis parallels to immaculate conception are laughable; and she started a different thread on Mithras but somebody else blew her out of the water there. Anyway, when challenged about why it would be necessary to lie in the absence of material gain, given Jesus' message of poverty, Atheist Troll(s) shrugged and said "IDK" (12/16/2014 16:43, right above). So who the heck knows how Atheist Troll tried to torture logic to get herself from point A to point B. But to return to the point of your post, the narrow part of Atheist Troll's logically incoherent argument that relies on "lying" =/= "coopting" is wrong, too. [/quote]

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