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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote]I get that you find relativism based on easygoing individual morality is appealing. However, as you mature, you will see that a shared moral framework is a communal value - one that helps society function.[/quote]

I find it cute that you think I'm some young thing.  I'm in my 50s and as I have matured, my dependence on external moral authorities/codes has lessened as I've gotten older and more mature. I've learned that my morality is something I derive from my own personal sense of ethics - it's not dictated by some external source - whether "imaginary" supernatural (theistic) - or "social" (peer group).  In fact, I'd disagree with you: individual ethics, not dependency on group approval, is a sign of maturity.

[b]You should look up some studies that in fact suggest the opposite. Students generally don't like moral codes. When they see what that can lead to, they develop more mature ideas about ethics and the value to society as a whole of a basic communal moral code.

Are you a complete moral relativist? Do you think that everyone's judgment on how they shall live their lives is equal? So if you are a Wall Street banker who makes millions off deals that enrich you and your cronies, and you work in a poorly-regulated industry where these deals are not only acceptable but encouraged, that makes what you are doing okay? It might be legal; it might not create any obvious victims. But is it right? Just because you say it is, according to your "individual ethics"?

But more generally I am not talking merely about group approval. I am talking about absolute morality versus relative morality and having the ability to actually differentiate between right and wrong under natural law. Life is about judgment. Do you really think that women in Saudi Arabia are treated well because their cultural standards dictate how they are treated? They have no natural rights imbued by being human? To someone who thinks you should not impose your own ethics on anyone else - like you - they are not mistreated. After all, it is their culture, and who are you to judge. Me, I'm fine judging that as wrong. [/b]

[quote]And I say this as a political liberal.[/quote]

I really highly doubt this - you are more likely a closet evangelical.  But I don't know you and can't read your mind.  What you are expressing is the fundamental conservative theological christian reasoning in defense of external locus "morality" - dogma/doctrine, bible based and top-down-authority (not liberal/libertarian) "morality".

[b]I am an atheist. I have not injected a single religious note into this conversation. Only you have done that. But apparently you judge religious people very negatively. Funny, you with your disdain for judging others.[/b]

[quote]It's one thing to advocate for people expressing their sexuality freely. It's another thing to say that that means kiddie porn is okay. [/quote]

These things are quite different - Kiddie porn - at least the stuff created using real children - is not a victimless crime.  Sexual activities between consenting adults is victimless, by definition of being consenting.  Children cannot consent.  That you can't see these distinctions is evidence of either a lack of intellect or a degree of intellectual dishonesty.

[b]At a time when colleges are working hard to eliminate date rape by focusing on consent - especially the number of colleges that are now specifying that a drunk person is not capable of giving consent - the rest of us have evolved way past you on this.[/b]

[quote]It's one thing to say your body is yours and it is no one's business how many partners you have. It's another thing to say "go out, get drunk off your ass, and screw around, regardless of whether your co-workers think you are sleazy." [/quote]

No, actually, it's not a different thing: what business is it of my co-workers who I screw around with, and how often I do it, whether or not I am drunk when I do, and what kinds of sex we have?  My co-workers business is limited to my work performance.

[b]They are still judging you, and you should know that. Whether you care or not is up to you, but since the (fake) OP was displaying these behaviors with her coworkers, it was only right to explain their likely perception of her. And how you behave with your work colleagues will affect what they think of your judgment, whether it happens at work or not. You can rail against it all you like, but it doesn't change the essential truth of human nature. If you were as mature as you claim, you would know that you cannot control how others perceive you and your lack of scruples.[/b]

[quote]It surprises me that so many people are reluctant to acknowledge the difference.[/quote]

It amazes me that you utterly fail to grasp what is your business and what is not - you clearly have no sense of personal boundaries.  You also have demonstrated pretty amply your inability to reason clearly.

Now, run along back to your little pentagon prayer group.  [/quote]

[b]Personal boundaries? We are having a discussion on an anonymous board. You think I run around telling people they are making stupid decisions? Wow. Again, how judgmental of you.

And once again, I don't pray. Atheists can have strong ethical codes, you know. Funny you think that only religious people do.[/b][/quote]

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