Reply to A Sincere Question about Secular Christmas

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Christmas is not secular no matter how you spin it.  I’ve never celebrated Christmas nor my kids.   [/quote]

98% of Christmas is secular. Many just ignore the 2%. 
[/quote]

Christmas isn't secular.  Its a Christian practice and holiday.  I don't understand how you say its secular.[/quote]

DP-

Because in addition to its secular roots and history, many people celebrate it in a non-religious way.  Certainly you get that, right?  For example, there are dozens of popular holiday specials and only one of them mentions Jesus, and thousands of commercials and advertisements, none of which mention Jesus, and many family gatherings which (joyously) occur without mention of Jesus, either tacitly or explicitly.  Tons of non-denominal decorations everywhere...

You definitely understand this, I am certain of it.  Just because you might celebrate it differently, PPs point is that for many people (ok, possibly not 99% but likely the majority, I guess) celebrate it without a religious meaning.[/quote]

What "secular roots and history" are you talking about? The traditions that Christianity co-opted from other sources? Decorating trees would probably not still be a thing (certainly not as widespread as it is) if Christianity hadn't adopted it into Christmas celebrations and spread it as part of the religious holiday. If anything, the roots and history of Christmas are solidly Christian, and have only grown apart from Christianity as people have dropped their religiosity (the growth of the "nones").

I'll grant you that many people who celebrate Christmas today do it without mention of Jesus or any religious aspect and think of their observance as totally secular. But you have to see how people who don't celebrate it at all (as many Jewish posters have noted) can't divorce its history and roots in Christianity from the "secular" aspects of it, right? It's not about people who celebrate it religiously vs. those who celebrate it secularly; it's about people who just don't celebrate it at all.[/quote]

Maybe it's not about people who celebrate it religiously vs. those who celebrate it secularly; but the people who just don't celebrate it at all, do so for religious reasons - They're Jewish and the religious overtones to the holiday are Christian.

How would secular celebrators of Christmas feel about adding Hanukah candles to their festivities?[/quote]
There are people who don’t celebrate it for religious reasons, but also people who do celebrate it irrespective of their religion, because they are celebrating it secularly.

As a secular celebrator of Christmas, I wouldn’t care about adding a menorah, et al, though I imagine Jewish people might care![/quote]

Adding dreidels or a menorah to your Christmas celebrations doesn't make it secular. It might make it multicultural, which is not the same thing. And also, let's not start lighting a menorah if you're not Jewish; that's appropriative.[/quote]

I suppose that a Christian could say the same about a secular Jew having manger scene, but if they are truly secular, I disagree.[/quote]

What secular Jew has a manger scene? If a secular Jew is going to do Christmas, they're going to do the fun parts, like lights and cookies.[/quote]

dunno, but some Jews might think a particular manger scene is fun in because it reminds them of a manger scene from their past - who knows?[/quote]
Wut?[/quote]

Yeah, they might have really liked the manger scene that a neighbor had and picked one just like it that they saw  at a second hand store.  They might not even know its significance, but it says "Christmas" to them.[/quote]

Actually it’s virtually impossible to live in a mostly Christian society and not know the significance of stuff like a manger, so this hypothetical situation seems extremely imaginary. [/quote]

I can imagine it.[/quote]

You would have to imagine it, because that's definitely not happening in reality.[/quote]

In your opinion.[/quote]

In everyone's opinion except yours. Please explain the scenario where a Jew finds a manger in a secondhand store and wants it for their own house because they celebrate secular Christmas and/but they are unaware of any of the religious components of Christmas, and so they don't realize what the manger stands for. Has this Jew been totally avoiding all culture for years? Are they just really stupid? I will stipulate that it's possible that some ultra-Orthodox Jews don't know what manger decorations are, maybe even likely, but I also think it's virtually impossible that a Hasid would go buy a manger to decorate their house for Christmas. [/quote]

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