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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Tell me what are the job outcomes for your AP students? Maybe kids should be focused more on learning life skills as they go to HS. Going to college is no longer the meal ticket to a good job.

Not saying no rigorous education but it’s not the end all be all anymore. Going to a great college also doesn’t translate to a great job.[/quote]

The job market is tough, but not going to college isn’t the solution. What job would you expect someone to get without a degree?[/quote]

DP but there are tons of jobs for kids with trade skills in welding, electrician, machining et al.

WSJ just ran an article about some HSs opening large VoTech shops and getting funding from private industry because there are so many unfilled trade jobs (which blows a hole in the argument that there aren’t good factory jobs).

Every kid in the welding class gets an internship and is offered a FT job with most starting around $80k.

Now, you can’t just go get a job at a car company with zero skills like you could in the 1950s, but you can acquire these skills for little to no cost.[/quote]

The WSJ can talk until they’re blue in the face but the 2 million dollar lifetime earnings premium to college graduation is a stubborn reality.

Also, invariably, people who point to the trades have never actually worked in a trade. Your body is mostly broken by the time you hit 40 in many if not most trades. [/quote]

This. People were okay taking manual labor jobs at a time when life expectancy was shorter and when it was feasible to get a pension after say 20 years of service. You might never be rich but around the time you physically couldn't do the job anymore, you could retire and live okay.

Cost of living is much higher and people live much longer. Social security kicks in later and the vast majority of jobs in the trades don't have pensions. [b]What happens when someone without a college degree is simply physically no longer able to climb up on roofs or get under cars on a daily basis, and they have no pension and social security is at least 15 years away? What do they do in the meantime.[/b] Another thing that used to happen is that businesses would take care of their own a bit and someone in this position might be kept on in a management position to help train younger workers and oversee jobs. But now these businesses have been corporatized or bought up by private equity, and someone like that is seen as dead weight that is not sufficiently profitable. Out you go.

If my kid wanted to go into a trade, I'd still suggest they get at least an associates degree in business so that they have a way to segue from the labor side to management, start their own business, etc. If they wanted to go straight into a trade, I'd help them find night or other PT programs to ensure they got some kind of academic training in a practical field that would complement that work. My brother worked construction in his 20s while getting a degree -- it is tough for a while but in the end puts you in a better position than many other college grads because you have more money and you have real work experience.

I want my kids thinking of options for when they are 35, 45, 55. I don't care if they have white collar jobs but I don't want them to be short sighted and then have major regrets when they want to buy a house, when they blow out their knee, when their own kid has college aspirations. [/quote]

First, very few jobs these days have a pension...in fact almost none.  We have 401k accounts which nearly every company provides regardless of your job function

Second, there are many trade jobs working at large companies that come with benefits, 401k retirement options, etc.  Those companies also allow the junior welder to move up through the organization and become management of the welding/trade groups, so no you aren't having to perform the same physical tasks at 50 as when you were 20.

The WSJ article wasn't showing kids going to work for some mom & pop operation, but some large companies (and some small companies too).[/quote]

There are fewer than 500,000 welding jobs available in the US. Same with plumbers (who by the way generally don't go work for major corporations but for small mom and pop shops or they work as independent contractors). For those welding jobs, how many do you think are managerial level? Maybe 100k? What happens to everyone else?

There are 3.6 million teaching jobs in the US, and that may be low as there is a reported teacher shortage. Most teaching jobs come with guaranteed benefits after a certain number of years of teaching, including retirement benefits. And teaching has a flat hierarchy. If you can teach, you likely can get a job in a classroom somewhere. Many districts also do pay increases for seniority, which means you don't have to earn a management position to make more money -- you just stick it out and get step ups.

And teaching is far less susceptible to layoffs from automation. And teaching, despite all the many downsides, is also a lot more comfortable to do when you are 50+ -- indoors, better air quality, lower physical expectations.

I'd take a career in teaching over a career in welding if my goal is economic stability, any day of the week. [/quote]

There are welders, electricians, plumbers, pipe fitters, HVAC folks, machinists, etc.  There are 34.7MM people employed in the US in the skilled trades...which appears to be 10x the number of teaching jobs.  So, if by your estimates, 20% of all welders can go into management, that means roughly 7MM skilled trades workers can go into management.

Plenty of people have no interest in trying to corral a classroom full of kids, many who aren't interested in your particular subject, for 8 hours per day, plus the unpaid time grading papers, preparing for class and what not.  I mean, are you not looking at other threads on DCUM about disgruntled teachers?  There are literally 100+.

[/quote]

+1.  People don’t get it.  I’m a parent and have volunteered in the classroom.  Those who haven’t should try it sometime.

My god, I wouldn’t last 2-3 hours.  So many kids just in need of redirection, let alone trying to teach them.

I’ll take my job any day over teaching.  BTW I’m in the medical field.

Teachers are way underpaid and under-appreciated.  Depending parents who think their child is the only one that matters don’t help either.  There is a huge shortage of teachers and it’s just getting worst.

[/quote]

typo demanding parents[/quote]

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