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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]You two sit together and make a pact to be intentionally kind, fair and helpful. No keeping scores, just try to be a good team.[/quote]

DP. Yeah, tried that. Just does not work with someone with weak executive function. Structure works. Good intentions do not. [/quote]

Good intentions make all the difference, structure only helps execute them. Unless one understands and feels genuinely concerned about unfairly overburdening their partner, nothing would change.[/quote]

So for the first time in their life they will simply *feel* bad for dumping on their wife and suddenly function like a true adult??!!

Ok. [/quote]

No. Thats why you date and live with one you intend to share a life, kids, home, finances and chores with. You make informed decision of if they'll make a caring partner or not. You may decide their shortcomings are worth it or not.[/quote]

Lol.

As if living in an apartment and working until 7pm with a male who owns 5 shirts, 3 trousers, and a subway pass is any indication of how he will deal with a needy kid, 4 Br house and yard, 4 people’s work, school and sports schedules, and two sets of grandparents.

Yeah. Keep not processing that answer everytime someone answers your exact question. [/quote]
+1. For some reason there is a subset of DCUMers who NEED to believe you can accurately predict what kind of husband and father a man will be mid-career based on what kind of bachelor and boyfriend he was early career. It’s obviously asinine if you just think about it a tiny bit.

My husband used to plan and cook for large dinner parties as a bachelor in grad school. Now he can barely make himself toast. [/quote]

NP. I'm one of these people, I guess. Obviously life got harder and more complex, but when I look at my husband and all my friends husbands... yeah. I could have accurately predicted who would have been a partner in childrearing and home keeping and who wouldn't. And I would have been pretty close to right. Not perfectly, some stepped up more, some stepped up less. But the dude whose apartment was filthy... is still not cleaning. The dudes who shrugged their shoulders at wedding planning and said "whatever" are still shrugging their shoulders about anything household or kid related. The ones who happily took on a large chunk of life responsibilities (like, who did all the cooking for their GF when they moved in together, not just on special occasions, but the regular day-to-day grind) are now cooking for their families of four. The one who could not get their act together to plan a vacation or who was always dreaming about the next big thing... can't handle any kid logistics and has four unfinished house projects going at any given time, most of which will never get completed.

The real difference I noted is that some women cared about this stuff and those who didn't seem to notice or care because (as you note) - when you're young and single, this stuff doesn't matter much. But the signs were there, in most cases, if you were looking for them. [/quote]

Again, you are making the mistake of thinking that all other women are just clones of you making different choices.

All those women who married guys who don't cook or clean or help -- what are their dads like? What were their childhoods like? What were their ex-boyfriends like? What were their lives like when they were dating these men? How is their self esteem? Their mental health? What are their jobs like?

Different people have different options, outlooks, contexts, etc. It sounds like you were someone who had a very clear idea what married life with kids would look like and require of you AND your partner. Great for you! Many women have no idea because they grew up in dysfunctional homes or had parents with very old fashioned divisions of labor. Some women have low self esteem and might notice that their boyfriend isn't perfect but convince themselves that it's the best they can do. Still other women just don't realize how much work and logistics kids will take. And yet other women don't have great options -- they may not have the looks or the charisma or the background to attract the kind of men who will be great partners. And so on and so on and son on.

Congratulations to you for just knowing more about life and being better at picking a spouse and also having the right choices and the ability to select a partner who can show up in that way. Seriously -- I'm happy for you.

But judging women who didn't know, didn't have the backgrounds or context to know, didn't have the same choices, made do with what they had and hoped for the best, because they are not sufficiently like you, is just arrogance and myopia. You basically have nothing of value to offer others because you have an outlook that literally everything about life from dating to retirement is predictable based on signs that you can read and others can't. Yay? You can show yourself out.[/quote]

DP but you make a lot of good points. When I was looking for a spouse, I was very concerned about inclination to be unfaithful because my father had blown up 3 (then, now 4) due to his cheating. I was especially looking for strong impulse control and shared values around fidelity.

Maybe if the biggest problem in my childhood had been division of labor I would have been more focused on these subtle signs PP saw (although I still don’t think I would have seen them, DH was an accomplished home chef and tidy bordering on OCD) but my childhood was so chaotic, I honestly can’t remember how my parents and various stepparents split up household chores. [/quote]

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