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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]You did move the goalpost there.  The original assertion was that a kid taking Algebra I in 7th and geometry in 8th could be competitive in VA.  They simply can’t be. [/quote]

Looking at the results in VA this year, at least one student who has not completed algebra 1 came pretty close to making nationals, and at least one student who did go to nationals did not have algebra 1 before 6th grade.[/quote]

Even if they're not taking Alg/trig in school, they are learning it somewhere. I believe most of the VA team made USAJMO, which requires a strong AIME showing (which require Alg2+)   [/quote]

This.  They're not reaching AIME/JMO/Mathcounts nationals with nothing more than the algebra I or geometry taught in FCPS/LCPS.  They're taking outside classes somewhere.  The one student who has not completed Algebra I yet came close to making nationals has at least taken an outside geometry class.  Many of the problems in the state round this year required geometry. [/quote]

No outside classes, but they study stuff on their own, or in team practices.[/quote]

Well, then define "pretty close to making nationals."  The VA cutoff for making nationals was like a 35 or 36, and the MD one was like a 40.  It is doubtful that a kid who hasn't completed algebra I and has just done some free self study got a score anywhere near those levels.  [/quote]

VA cutoff was 34. The kid I know scored 29, and I don't rule out for some of the other kids- two 7th graders are going to nationals.  This kid scored over 40 in chapter round.  It's even closer than that, as a few questions he knew how to do at state he messed up that would have put him right in the mix for advancing.
Unfortunately Virginia was way down this year, so to qualify next year he would need to go much higher.  There is a big difference between 35 and 40.
[/quote]

Sorry, but there's no way that a 29 should be viewed as an "almost made nats in a competitive state" score.  It's truly a "made nats only in a very weak state" score.  There's a huge difference between a 29 and 34 (although I think you're wrong on the cutoff.  It was reported as a 35 to make nats with multiple scores over 40).  My noncompetitive state had a nationals cutoff of 34, with a 29 not even making top 10.  Also, at least one of the 7th graders from VA made JMO.  And also, every single kid messed up a few problems that they could have gotten.

Thanks for proving my point, though, that it's pretty much impossible for a kid to come close to qualifying for nats in a competitive state with just school Algebra I and coaching.
[/quote]

This subthread started with a claim that you have to be in algebra 1 by 5th grade or sooner to do well.  At least one of the national qualifiers from Virginia did not do that, and was mostly self study, though[b] did take some AOPS classes like Number Theory.[/b][/quote]
Is this qualifier your kid?  If not, how do you know what classes the kid has taken?  It's not like people make a point of advertising every single AoPS course they've taken.  Anyway, you just did prove the point that the kid isn't getting to nationals through school math + coaching.  They're taking several AoPS classes to fill in the gaps.

The subthread claim is that a kid can't make it to nationals in a competitive state without at least Algebra II or possibly pre-calc knowledge.  This is correct.  Competitive states have cutoffs near 40, meaning that the kid would need to get most of the later sprint round questions correct and almost all of the targets correct.  VA was somehow not at all a competitive state this year, but usually the cutoff is much higher.  Maryland had a cutoff of 40.  No matter how you slice it, a lot of kids are quite accelerated, acceleration and outside classes help in these contests, and you have to be one of the top 4 kids in the state to make it.  It is a zero sum game, and the kid relying mostly on mildly accelerated school math classes as well as their middle school math coach don't really stand a chance against the kids who have taken a lot of outside classes.[/quote]

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