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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]COVID health measures were an affront to civil liberties.  But yes there were others.  [/quote]

Get a grip.  COVID killed over 1.1 million Americans and left tens of millions more with ongoing debilitating health issues.[/quote]

You reading the latest studies on ventilator roles? And now you only need one mRNA shot after all. Time to roll back policies and then claim it was a ‘choice’.[/quote]

FFS, if you are sick enough and hypoxic enough that you're going to be put on a ventilator and (yes) potentially acquire secondary bacterial pneumonia, you're at death's door no matter what you do - true of COVID, true of influenza. However, you're not going to convalesce at home when your pulse ox level is 60% without oxygen supplementation. That's true of pretty much anything in terms of hospital care. You can have a stroke and die of a central line associated bloodstream infection because of the care required which means putting a catheter through your blood vessels to end near your heart. You can have surgery to remove a tumor, but get a surgical site infection.

Statistically, treatments dramatically improve your odds, so people get them, but obviously they incur risk.[/quote]

PS, in early pandemic, these were patients who were so freaking sick while proned on their stomachs, nurses could barely turn them over to perform a bed bath without spending hours trying to re-stabilize their oxygen levels. Yes, hours, I'm not kidding.

They also then got central line associated bloodstream infections at higher rates (levels rose during the pandemic likely related to the surge of COVID patients) because the care was so difficult for central line access - if the central line could only be placed into a femoral artery because the arm placements failed, but the patient was proned on their belly, it was VERY difficult to keep the site clean.

If your interpretation of the ventilator study is that COVID was no big deal and the patients died not because of COVID, you really need to think through what you're saying. 
[/quote] People were put on vents who didn’t need them to avoid spread to health care workers. [/quote]

COVID patients were NOT put on vents to prevent spread to health care workers. Absolutely f-ing not. They were put on vents because they couldn't keep them oxygenated, they would arrive "happy hypoxics" and had incredibly low oxygen!  There was definitely some over ventilation in the first month till there was learning that being a bit gentler with heated high flow nasal cannulas worked better. COVID patients had such wet lungs, secondary bacterial pneumonia is a risk no matter what.

PS simply intubating a patient TO put them on a vent is an aerosol generating procedure, so nobody was protecting healthcare workers to intubate them!

[/quote]

Repost to add high flow nasal cannulas did work better for some patients; for others, vents are no choice. Do vents carry a risk of ventilator associated pneumonia? Yes, they always have! But what do you do when the patient becomes hypoxic and will die if you cannot oxygenate them successfully any other way and they are so fragile that EVEN ON A VENT their oxygen plummets to below 70% from moving them slightly to clean their body or to try to prevent pressure wounds? But sure, it was the vent that killed them! [/quote]

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