Reply to Church Raised Adult Children who Reject their Religion and are Raising Kids Without Church

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]OMG, you do not baptize a kid without parental consent!  That's an excellent way to lose access to your grandkids, among other things.

You should ask yourself why your adult children left the church.  You should consider their values -- are they so different from yours, really?  Are they good people, teaching their kids to be honest, kind, compassionate, etc.?  Do you trust that you did a good job raising them?[/quote]

No one can baptize a child without parental consent. [/quote]

Not in a church.  My brother went to a camp that wanted to re-baptize him and didn't want to allow a phone call home first.

I could see an over enthusiastic religious grandparent trying to do it in a scenario like that.  The big group baptisms in a lake.[/quote]

So your brother was already baptized, and your parents sent him to a religious camp, and you think he needed to call home to be re-baptized?

Once you are baptized, you are baptized.

[/quote]

That's not what I said.

The group running the camp wanted to re-baptize him.  We had both been to that camp before without any talk of baptism.  A new director had taken over that year.

Various kids wanted to call home because they knew they didn't need to be baptized again.  They wanted their parents to stop it.

There are groups who will baptize without parental consent. [/quote]

What group was running the camp?

“Rebaptizing” someone isn’t the same thing as baptizing a child without parental consent.

Did this group (who you need to name) baptize kids w/o parental consent?

What groups do you know of who will baptize children w/o parental consent, links and citations mandatory.[/quote]

Same story, two sources
https://www.insider.com/north-carolina-school-baptized-100-kids-without-their-parents-permission-2022-9
https://thehill.com/homenews/3629996-more-than-100-students-baptized-without-parents-permission-at-north-carolina-school/

[/quote]

A few students had actually been scheduled to be baptized, Northwood Principal Renee McLamb told the Observer. But then the rest of the students felt moved to join in on the ceremony, McLamb said, adding that she didn't intend for the event to be a secret from parents.

In hindsight, we would do it differently and give the students an opportunity to contact their parents and ask permission to be baptized," the principal wrote in an email to the Observer. "We were not expecting such an overwhelming response to the message that was spoken, but as a mother I certainly can empathize with why some parents were upset."

Some parents said they were upset that they missed their child's baptism, a religious ceremony that's usually celebrated with a family gathering to witness the event.

This is not an example of a group that baptizes kids w/o parental consent. This is a single story of a private Christian school and the majority of parents were upset they were not present at the ceremony.

Northwood Temple Academy, also known as NTA, is a private, Christian school that is a part of Northwood Temple Pentecostal Holiness Church. Located at 4200 Ramsey Street, Fayetteville, North Carolina, it has approximately 460 students enrolled. There are weekly chapel services and/or reboot groups.

In September 2022, NTA baptized approximately 100 schoolchildren without informing, or seeking consent from, their parents.[1] Some parents only learned their children had been baptized that day when their children requested to be brought dry clothes.[2] Many parents that practice adult baptism were upset because they were not present for an important religious ceremony for their children; others were upset as their children were already baptized, and felt that a second baptism effectively undid the first baptism.[3] The school's principal said, "In hindsight, we would do it differently."[2]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northwood_Temple_Academy[/quote]

The poster I was responding to asked the following question:  "What groups do you know of who will baptize children w/o parental consent, links and citations mandatory."

I gave links and citations to a group that baptized children without parental consent.

Are you moving the goalposts now? [/quote]

two news stories from the Orlando Sentinel are subscription only.

The Northwood temple story is about a private Christian school who had scheduled a baptism event with consent from parents for some students, and other students CHOSE to be baptized and the majority of the parents were upset only because they were not there.

If a child chooses to be baptized, I don’t see a problem. Children are choosing to transition to another gender now without parental consent. Children can decide if they wish to be baptized, too.

Nobody at Northwood baptized a child without consent of the child.[/quote]

But you agree that this is an example of a group that baptized children without parental consent, right?  Just want to be clear.[/quote]

Does a parent need to consent if a child says that they have decided they wish to be baptized?

It’s a private Christian school, and I expect parents who pay to send their child to a private Christian school would be ok with their child deciding they want to be baptized.

The real mystery here is why do you care if a child attending a private Christian school decides he or she wants to be baptized. How/why do you feel so strongly about what these kids are choosing to do? Their religious choices are their own to make.

Frankly you come off creepy and stalker-ish. [/quote]

All I am reacting to is the poster who asserted that baptism without parental consent does not happen by any group.  It does.  Agree? It appears you do from the above…and it appears that you condone it in certain circumstances.  I take no position on that.  Just trying to get clear on facts.
I take no position [/quote]

If a child wishes to be baptized, and gives consent, I don’t believe the parents need to give consent. In fact, if a child decides they wish to be baptized and are prevented from being baptized because their parents disagree, I would argue the parents are not required to give consent. [/quote]

So parental consent should not be required to baptize a child then?

Grandma can take 7yo Larla to her church to be baptized and as long as Larla says she wants it the officiant should do so?
If not at 7yo, what age works for you?[/quote]

If a child is attending a Christian school, which the parents pay for them to attend, and a child consents to be baptized, yes.

If the parents allow Larla to accompany Grandma to church and Larla wishes to be baptized, that’s Larla’s decision.

Baptism is a choice for each individual, regardless of age. It doesn’t mean that you will be forced to attend church your entire life if you are baptized as a child. It doesn’t mean you can’t change your mind when you are older as to your religious beliefs. We can see The Satanic Temple charges a fee to “un-baptize” people.

I don’t see how you must be involved in any person’s choice at any age if they consent to baptism. Why do you feel you are involved in anyone’s choice to be baptized?[/quote]

I’m a bit confused because you start with some conditional answers, but then do go on to say that it is an individual choice regardless of age.

If Larla does NOT attend a Christian school and her parents do NOT know that Grandma is taking her….should she be baptized if she says she wants it?

(An BTW I have said not a single thing about what I think should happen or who should be involved.)[/quote]

Already established granny has the permission of parents to attend church with her grandchild. Do grandparents take kids to church without permission from the parents?

Op won’t respond with any details, so nobody knows op’s situation. [/quote]

Where was it “established” that Granny had permission?  We have been far afield from OP’s initial question for a long time anyway.

Can you answer the question posed above? You’ve obliged so far. (Assuming same PP)

If a grandparent takes a child to be baptized, with no knowledge of the parents or permission of the parents to engage in any religious activity at all, and the child says they want it, should the baptism occur?[/quote]

You fundamentally misunderstand baptism. The parents would be present for the baptism, if a child chooses to be baptized.

[/quote]

I think maybe you haven’t been following this exchange.[/quote]

You suppose 2 hypothetical scenarios:
 
grandma is regularly attending church with Larla w/o permission. (How would parents not know where their 7 year old is every Sunday morning?) If you are a parent and you don’t know where your kids is every Sunday, you suck.

Baptism in church is attending by family. Larla would have her parents in attendance during the baptism ceremony.

op posted Baptize? w/o details. We should have details from op.

In reality, only the most drug addicted, absent parents would not realize their child was attending church with MeeMaw and wanted to be baptized.[/quote]

Is it not possible for a baptism to occur outside of a Sunday morning service? 
Is it not possible for a parent to send their child to a grandparent’s for a weekend?[/quote]

Is it not possible a clown will dance into your home and give you a free balloon? Yes, it’s possible.

So you are making up a scenario in which an imaginary child (DCUM’s precious Larla) goes to see GamGam for a single weekend and goes to a single Sunday service and is baptized?

Again- you fundamentally misunderstand baptism and are making situations up out of whole cloth.

Troll op is long gone.[/quote]

Yes, I am absolutely making up a hypothetical.  I am doing so to attempt to clarify the reasoning/stance of the PP who said that parental consent should not be required to baptize if the child consents.

I also think you may consider that your understanding of the meaning/rituals/requirements for baptism may be informed only by your own denomination/sect approach.  There are many many groups that call themselves Christian and who engage in baptism.

[/quote]

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