Reply to Do you believe the US is the best country in the world? If not, then which?

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Reply to "Do you believe the US is the best country in the world? If not, then which?"

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Yes, there's no doubt the US is the best country in the world.  Whether folks want to admit it or not, most would live here in a heartbeat if given a chance. [/quote]

Agree. Politically I have very little in common with your stereotypical "flag-waver" but I think it's almost willfully blind not to understand the advantages we have as American citizens, appreciate the work [b]America has done to further the cause of freedom and democratic ideals around the globe, [/b]and accept that the vast majority of people in the world would choose American citizenship if given the opportunity. This certainly doesn't mean we are perfect. We aren't. And it doesn't mean that our future is inevitable. It isn't, and right now it feels increasingly tenuous in ways that greatly worry me.

But sort of like a Rawls thought experiment, if you were offered the choice before birth to decide between "American" or "random chance of all the other countries in the world," you'd be crazy not to choose America.[/quote]

You've either swallowed the propaganda or are willfully ignorant of all the oppression America doles out around the globe when it perceives that a democratic process somewhere is likely to support policies it does not approve of.

I can tell you that "America supports of freedom and democratic ideals around the globe" is a uniquely American view.  That is, this is NOT a view shared by most people around the globe outside of America.   It is DEFINITELY not a view, for instance, that has any support in the Arab world.  How can it, with so much evidence to the contrary?  Latin America? Hello?[/quote]

Oh wow, the theocratic and monarchical and largely repressive Arab world doesn’t agree that American ideals are good? And here I was assuming that I could rely on them to be purely neutral arbiters of the best and most free societies.

As for Latin America, I know whereof I speak when I say that El Salvador, Nicaragua, Guatemala, and Venezuela are not exactly thriving at the moment. Not many people trying to emigrate to those countries.[/quote]

You either can't read or are being willfully ignorant. I'll spell it out for you again.

People in other countries - other than America - [b]do NOT believe[/b] that "America supports freedom and democratic ideals around the globe".  Only Americans believe that because that's what the propaganda feeds them.   Evidence of actual American behavior around the globe does not support it.   America's actions in other countries do not support freedom and democratic ideals.  America's actions in other countries support only American interests, and if American interests as America perceives them require that a repressive, undemocratic regime needs to stay in place, then America will support that repressive, undemocratic regime to stay in place.  Conversely, if American interests as America perceives them require that a democratic regime is removed, then America will not hesitate to try and remove it.

I'll write it again to remove all confusion:   Only Americans believe that "America supports freedom and democratic ideals around the globe".  People in other countries do not believe that "America supports freedom and democratic ideals around the globe" because they have a better, closer view on what America [b]actually [/b]does around the globe.[/quote]

Citizens of other countries—especially the repressive and corrupt governments pervading many parts of the Middle East and Latin America—would by and large have [i]no idea[/i] what we actually do and think. It’s incredible that you think that Americans are uniquely susceptible to “propaganda” but that the average citizen of Iran or Venezuela will have a clear eyed picture of us that I’m not even allowed to question.

Honest question: If given the choice between being an “average” citizen of the United States and an “average” citizen of, say, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Yemen, El Salvador, Venezuela, Guatemala, or Nicaragua, what percentage would choose the United States? 90%? 95%? Why do you think that is, if those other countries are so enlightened about how awful we are?[/quote]

Your question has nothing to do with the essence of the notion in question.  The quality of life America creates for its own subjects is not in question.

Does America support freedoms and democratic ideals around the globe or does it not?

Looking at what America does around the world (and not at what it says it does), [b]can we say with a straight face that it supports freedoms and democratic ideals around the world?[/b]

And yes, I think an average Iraqi would have a much better view on what America does in Iraq than you.[/quote]

Yes. I think so. Name a current dictatorship, autocracy, true monarchy, or communist country that is an unequivocal ally of the United States. Name just one. UAE is as close as you can get, and isn’t exactly our closest friend or a country whose governance model we’ve exactly supported.

The question for you is, do you think we could and should be doing more to support democracy and freedom that we aren’t doing?[/quote]

You must be joking.  The US is on record for its enthusiastic alliance with every single Gulf monarchy.  The relentless kiss-ass to Al-Saud? Is your amnesia really taking hold so early?  Multiple takedowns of democratically elected leaders in other countries?  Suppression of democratically inspired uprising in Bahrain? Wake up.

I think America should focus on itself and let other countries decide how they want to run their shop.  [/quote]

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