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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Making it into the ECNL showcase even into the open cup as an ECNL R team is still worth something. College coaches can still attend your games and see you play. Some might even have more respect for a high performing ECNL R team as opposed to a low performing regular ECNL team (like BRYC or Maryland United). So keep on spouting BS and the rest of us will keep on watching our DC playing and improving. [/quote]

Nobody is bashing the league. There are just structural differences between ECNL and ECNL-R. They are not the same, they never will be the same. And showcase wise, terrific, it is a bonus IF you win your own Regional League. And if you do you still will simply play other ECNL-R teams and has been stated some underperforming ECNL teams.

College coaches scout kids, not teams. They know the difference between leagues and the level of play. The film you will use to entice them to see your DC play will be 90% league based play with slower and less skilled players. Even if your team is a terrific ECNL-R team they won't care about the TEAM, only your kid. Your kid would have to be head and shoulders better than any player on the field to get noticed.

[b]Combining ECNL and GA there are nearly 4,000 kids in any given graduation year getting looked at before your ECNL-R kid. [/b]

[/quote]

This where you expose yourself. Colleges don't create tiers of recruits based on league. They know the worst kids in ECNL are not better than the best kids in ECNL-r. And those kids will be head and shoulders above other kids and they'll be equal to many talented ECNL kids. ECNL-r is massive league across multiple regions with differing abilities. ECNL-r in California is going to be different than here or Northeast or South.

You're right they scout kids and not teams. Which makes my point. Every player is different and they're evaluated that way. Does playing against better competition matter for development and exposure? Sure. And their chances in ECNL are better. No doubt about that. But stating an absolute that every ECNL kid is in line before ECNL-R is ridiculous. That's why colleges have camps to group players and have them compete against each other. The best are the ones recruited. I know several kids in ECNL-r or CCL that got spots ahead of ECNL at Division I and other schools.[/quote]

They scout kids at levels of play they know and trust. ECNL-R is closer to play with CCL, NCSL and EDP and your kid really needs to be a true standout at that level to draw interest.

When they see a kid play well at ECNL or GA showcase they can trust what they are seeing on the field because the level of competition. There were 11 brackets at Jeff cup this past year at U14 and Villarreal instead chose to play in the prestigious Stafford St. Patrick's Day tournament instead. I'm sure any number of D1 schools would be excited by your DD's hattrick against Loudoun Silver in that tournament. Now they would have to see it on film because they are at Jeff Cup instead. I mean a real battle of the titans for coaches to come and watch, the 43rd ranked Villarreal vs the 89th ranked Loudoun Silver.

The point isn't that your DD isn't good at soccer, the point is she will not be at a venue where she will be seen by enough coaches. She won't get better being on a at best mediocre team playing against bad teams in a tournament where only teams Jeff Cup wouldn't accept go to play.

And, lets not claim Jeff Cup is drawing UNC or Stanford here. The coaches that do go are from low D1, D2 and run of the mill D3 schools. And even those coaches are not venturing to watch teams lower than the 4th bracket.

But again, Villareal is on the cusp of ECNL.  :roll: [/quote]

First, your conflating this discussion about Villarreal and college recruiting. Nothing I said was about Villarreal or my daughter. She doesn't even play soccer, so you're making a lot of assumptions about things I didn't say and distracting from my point.

You act as if the way this works is that coaches show up at showcases and are randomly watching kids to find players and that's how they are "found." Except it isn't. Coaches don't have time for that. The good schools show up at showcases knowing which games they want to watch because they've been in communication with prospects and have seen film and probably had them in camp. You completely contradict your theory of recruiting when you say the best schools don't show up at these events. And that's true. So how do they find them? Not at ECNL games.

If you had read what I had written, I was talking about how not every ECNL/GA player is tiered above ECNL-r and there's a lot of opportunity for the best ECNL-r to find their way on Division I rosters. The path may be more difficult but presenting it as having to wait behind every ECNL/GA player is ridiculous. Recruiting is about relationships, grades, money and other factors AND playing ability because lots of players are in the same cluster - regardless of league - and you have to differentiate yourself. If show me coaches that only recruit from showcases and tournaments and look at leagues first then you are showing me a lazy coach that i wouldn't want my child to play for and probably won't be at the job very long.[/quote]

1. I never said coaches show up and watch random games. I mentioned film several times. Coaches first contact with kids is often through email and those that are from ECNL or GA get moved to the top of the list for follow up, not unlike a good resume.

2. You or someone said that 14-15 players on a ECNL and a ECNL-R team are the same. No they are not. The bottom 4 of ECNL and top 4 ECNL-R are similar but the ECNL-R level drops off significantly from there.

3. Not every player wants to play at a D1 school regardless of ability or potential. Not every D1 school is head and shoulders better than D2 or D3. College choice is about school and best fit for several reasons. The level of college soccer is not what differentiates a ECNL player from a ECNL-R player. Many ECNL players may in fact end up at the same soccer level as some ECNL-R players. The difference is that unlike ECNL-R, most (14-15) ECNL players WILL BE RECRUITED compared to 4-5 ECNL-R players.

4. If you don’t have a DD who even plays soccer I presume you’re a coach, and a ECNL-R coach at that. I certainly hope that if you are coaching players who have the potential to play soccer in college that you are encouraging them to play at a level where they will be properly showcased. Do not sell them snake oil that ECNL-R is “the same” thing and that you will get them to the program they want. If you’re doing that you are simply hoarding those players and you are doing them and their families a great disservice unless you personally are committing 14-15 of your players every year. And if it is true for your team and your players it most certainly will not be the case for players on a team like Villarreal 07’s. Perpetuating a myth that 14-15 players on a 43rd ranked team in Virginia are just as good as kids on VDA is a lie. And any parent with a kid on a ECNL-R team must be told that it is a lie.

5. Villarreal as an example points to the more typical ECNL-R quality team. There is no real separation between typical ECNL-R, NCSL, CCL and EDP teams. Women college soccer coaches simply do not have the recruiting budget, staff or time to scour through multiple lower leagues to find players those that do are lower level college programs both soccer wise and academically. [/quote]

Let's start with this. The original point I responded to was that all ECNL/GA players were above ECNL-r players in eyes of coaches. And that is completely untrue. And you're agreeing with me in what you say in No. 3. ENCL-r players can make Division I rosters strictly on ability ahead of many ENCL players.

I did not respond to anything about the best players on ENCL-r being better than most of the middle of the ECNL players. My only comment on that subject was it was hard to know if you give an ENCL-r team 4-5 top players that they could compete in ECNL based on scores because of not seeing games. ECNL is a varied league even just in DC, so some of these broad statements are pointless. I am not a fan of broad generalizations as you might have gathered.

Let me address your points because I don't think we are far off.

1. When you say the coaches first contact with players is through email, are you saying coaches reach out first or the player? Because most of the time it is the player initiating. Usually then film is sent and then the player comes to camp. Once the player is in camp - and it's rare kids are turned down from camp - they don't assess kids based on club. They base it on what they see. Now, are some impressions made initially by club, sure. But coaches are smart enough to there is a huge difference in level among players at McLean or Arlington and that someone from ECNL-r or CCL can be better than many of the kids. It certainly is true with clubs like BRYC and Loudoun. The camp is the interview and most kids get the interview because they pay to go.

2. I addressed this above and mostly agree. I'd go a little above bottom four but it would depend on the two clubs. Hard to make a broad statement.

3. It depends on what you mean by recruited. Do you mean given scholarships (because most don't get them) or do you mean actively sought by coaches? This is surely true at the top-top level of ENCL. But again, a player from ENCL-r that impresses coaches won't be treated any different because of club if the coach has any sense.

4. Don't assume. Not a coach either. Have no dog in fight. Just love soccer and seen it with family and friends and been through it with sons. And to be clear, I never said it was the "same." I've only said that some of the best players have the opportunity to be recruited in the same way as most of the ENCL players. And I am sure some coaches at ECNL-r are saying this and it is wrong and terrible for the kids. Parents want to believe and they take their money. But it is also true that people at ENCL are selling the same dream and there are many being lied to in same way about college prospects.

5. It's hard to compare across league but previously very good CCL teams were better than most ECNL-r clubs, though that is now changing with CCL falling apart. There's now some better clubs in ECNL-r and that's going to help build credibility and development.

Lastly, it's also true that coaches don't scour every ECNL roster and recruit that way as well. Most recruiting is player-driven. You have to be aggressive and work relationships from a series of schools that you are interested in and fit you athletically and academically. So much money is wasted on private recruiting camps and such because there is this hope you go and will be seen on your best day and coaches will flock to you with scholarship offers. It's hard work to build that "resume" of film, school and camp performance. But kids can get there, especially if they realize it's hard work and they really want to attend the school their pursuing. Below the Florida States and North Caorlinas or Virginias and Georgetowns, there's lots of opportunity at D1 or D3 based on what you want to get out of college. [/quote]

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