Reply to immmigrant haters: do you really want to be like Japan?

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]
Oh you can stuff it.  Please, detail here all the progressive, labor-rights policies you advocate for?

Regularlizing immigration is PRECISELY to protect workers right.  Having an "illegal" class of workers is a recipe for exploitation.  [/quote]

Stuff it? I thought you're all about intelligent debate and research and whatnot?

You have this weird, utopic idea that illegal migrants who put up with low pay, terrible conditions, and utter absence of employee rights for no reason other than not being able to work better jobs, will continue working in the same terrible jobs once they are legally able to work anywhere else.  Why? You think they are loyal to their slumlords?

The industries that rely on illegal migrant labor aren't doing it because they love migrants. They do it because they love paying artificially low wages and ignoring benefits and employee rights.  That's what you are arguing should be preserved.  And you are somehow persisting in your conviction that people who currently eat margarine because they can't have butter will weirdly continue doing that even when butter becomes available. [/quote]

You're the one distorting the argument.  Legalizing labor is the first way to protect worker's rights.  That's obvious.  And no, I don't think immigrants should be a permanent underclass - the reverse, actually.  I never said that I think immigrants should never move up, and that's not what the economically-based argument on immigration is about, at all.  It is about filling current labor market needs, not about repressing social/economic mobility.  And of course, immigrating to the US generally is a huge leap in mobility for many immigrants. To say that we need immigration for low-skilled employment does not mean that we should repress workers. [/quote]

How am I distorting the argument? You say, we have industries who are reliant on the illegal migrant labor so let's make sure they have legal access to that pool of people.  Of course, what that really means is that "we have industries who stay in business only because they are able to pay artificially low wages, offer zero benefits and no worker protections since illegal migrants have no option to work anywhere else."  A normal person would have reacted to this with "no business should tie its survival to exploiting workers so maybe they should pay more and offer some benefits."  But no, not you.  You say, let's make sure they have a legal way to pay artificially low wages, no benefits and no worker protection.  Because otherwise, god no, they can't stay in business. [/quote]

Well, I'm thrilled that you're so in favor of workers rights.  So you're going to be voting for Bernie, right?

The fact is, we currently have a pool of illegal labor, and the BEST way we can improve their conditions (if that's what you actually care about) is to regularlze them and given them the right to unionize, OSHA protections, minimum wage, access to benefits.

Also curious what you think the immediate economic impact would be of deporting all illegal labor?

If your idea is that we are going to simultaneously reform immigration to replace them with legal immigrants, that seems like quite a feat, and maybe Trump should have been working on that when he had control of Congress and the White House.

If your idea is that we're going to deport everyone and not replace them, then we will face demographic collapse, and enjoy your robot caregiver and the end of Social Security.

[/quote]

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